10197 - Fire Brigade

[legowalker]

14 minutes ago, Mos_Eisley said:

No, they don't always side with the buyer. Not reading the description will not get your money back. 

Either way buyer wins. If they file a credit card charge dispute, your money gets taken out of your bank account. And 99.9% the credit card company wins and you lose as a seller. 

Edited November 14, 2015 by legowalker

[asharerin]

38 minutes ago, cissi said:

Really interested in knowing even though buyers may not stand on a solid ground opening a SNAD case... but doesn't eBay always side with buyers as long as buyers say SNAD if they choose to open such cases?

The seller listed the item as brand new in the sets category. I suspect this would be an easy win for the buyer as ebay policy states a brand new item means an unused and unopened item. Most buyers do not read descriptions so if they saw a brand new 10197 listed in the sets category it is not rocket science to figure out what is going to happen and who is going to get their money back.

Edited November 14, 2015 by asharerin

[Mos_Eisley]

5 minutes ago, legowalker said:

Either of ay buyer wins. If they file a credit card charge dispute, your money gets taken out of your bank account. And 99.9% the credit card company wins and you lose as a seller. 

If we're going to come up with all sorts of other factors, then we can go on forever. The question that was presented was if ebay always sides with the buyer. If you have a properly written listing, ebay will side with you, unless the buyer is claiming something else like the box was torn up, but that isn't the case here. 

[fossilrock]

Sellers like that should be banned from ebay.  This has been my problem with my ebay for a while.  It makes it like browsing a junk store filled with scam artist, and lowlifes.  Removing things like this will make ebay a better place for those that don't scam and don't pull slimeballish tactics like that.  Ebay continues to slide down hill, and its because of things like that.  While, the buyer should have read the description, they probably thought they were getting a fire brigade for 150.00.  Still…  thats a slimeballish move by the seller.  Pure sucker bait.

[Alpinemaps]

5 minutes ago, legowalker said:

Either of ay buyer wins. If they file a credit card charge dispute, your money gets taken out of your bank account. And 99.9% the credit card company wins and you lose as a seller. 

If we're going to come up with all sorts of other factors, then we can go on forever. The question that was presented was if ebay always sides with the buyer. If you have a properly written listing, ebay will side with you, unless the buyer is claiming something else like the box was torn up, but that isn't the case here. 

But....if a seller has listed an item in an improper category, a listing can get pulled if reported. So doesn't it stand to reason that a buyer should be able to get their money back on a listing that eBay would have been pulled if it had been reported?

[Mos_Eisley]

Why would this listing be pulled?  They are quite clear about what this is. They state 3 times, including the title, that it's the box only. There is a market for empty boxes so I'm not sure why people are so worked up about it. Is the price high?  Sure, but so are a lot of listings for all sorts of things. I throw my empties away and would never sell a box, but people do want them, so why would I hate on this guy?

[justapilgrim]

Because its in new sets category, it's used and not a set

[Alpinemaps]

Why would this listing be pulled?  They are quite clear about what this is. They state 3 times, including the title, that it's the box only. There is a market for empty boxes so I'm not sure why people are so worked up about it. Is the price high?  Sure, but so are a lot of listings for all sorts of things. I throw my empties away and would never sell a box, but people do want them, so why would I hate on this guy?

Because its in new sets category, it's used and not a set

This. That's why we have limited success against some of the fakes. Because they list them in the Lego category when they aren't LEGO. Same idea. If it's not a new set it can't be listed in the new set category, no matter how it is described.

If you report a listing, you can select that it's in a wrong category. It's search manipulation and against the rules.

I get what you are saying Mos, because I do agree with you that a buyer needs to be smart and read a listing and if they screwed up its quite a bit on them. However, if the buyer wants to fight this with eBay they have a way to fight it and probably be successful.

[Ed Mack]

Regardless of the title, the seller intended to deceive. The person has 50% feedback on over 300 sales from what I can see. I have never seen feedback so low from a seller with so many sales. eBay should ban this seller.

[gregpj]

The seller likely knew what they were doing by listing it in the wrong category but it's also possible they clicked the "sell similar item" to start their listing and didn't even stop to think about the category.

And either way, these buyers are morons... Read the damn listing properly. We make fun of buyers like that all the time in the fruitcake thread so why would we cut them so much slack here?

How many people REALLY use the categories when searching instead of just keywords? I never ever use them.

[ravenb99]

9 minutes ago, Ed Mack said:

 

 

Regardless of the title, the seller intended to deceive. The person has 50% feedback on over 300 sales from what I can see. I have never seen feedback so low from a seller with so many sales. eBay should ban this seller.

 

its 50% as its only based on 2 tranactions.  Your feedback score is a running 12 month.  1 positive 1 negative is giving it that rate on what you see.

Its more than likely a hijacked account as the previous 215 or so are all positive.  It would really be 99.5% if based on all...

Edited November 14, 2015 by ravenb99
edit

[Ed Mack]

9 minutes ago, Ed Mack said:  

 

Regardless of the title, the seller intended to deceive. The person has 50% feedback on over 300 sales from what I can see. I have never seen feedback so low from a seller with so many sales. eBay should ban this seller.

 

its 50% as its only based on 2 tranactions.  Your feedback score is a running 12 month.  1 positive 1 negative is giving it that rate on what you see.

Its more than likely a hijacked account as the previous 215 or so are all positive.  It would really be 99.5% if based on all...

I am on my phone, so it was hard to see. I knew something wasn't right. I couldn't see the older sales. Thanks for clarifying.

[Alpinemaps]

The seller likely knew what they were doing by listing it in the wrong category but it's also possible they clicked the "sell similar item" to start their listing and didn't even stop to think about the category.

And either way, these buyers are morons... Read the damn listing properly. We make fun of buyers like that all the time in the fruitcake thread so why would we cut them so much slack here?

How many people REALLY use the categories when searching instead of just keywords? I never ever use them.

I don't think anyone is cutting the buyer slack. I'm not. He didn't read the listing.

There was a question upthread about whether eBay would side with the buyer or the seller in this particular case, and I'm just giving a reason why eBay might side with the buyer.

Buyer is definitely a fruitcake for not reading the listing.

[lodibricks]

4 hours ago, asharerin said:

The seller listed the item as brand new in the sets category. I suspect this would be an easy win for the buyer as ebay policy states a brand new item means an unused and unopened item. Most buyers do not read descriptions so if they saw a brand new 10197 listed in the sets category it is not rocket science to figure out what is going to happen and who is going to get their money back.

I didn't even notice the New & Sets category. Good point.

Add this to that other guy selling "New" sets without minifigures....and manuals....and built once for the photos. ha

[jdmpartz]

1 hour ago, Ed Mack said:

 

 

Regardless of the title, the seller intended to deceive. The person has 50% feedback on over 300 sales from what I can see. I have never seen feedback so low from a seller with so many sales. eBay should ban this seller.

 

dont be so quick to judge.

I have an ebay business (cannot put exact numbers) has 7 numbers.

my feedback is about 30% of actual sales.

 

Just sayin.

[cissi]

Actually it is really a tricky call... as eBay only has two conditions for toys

Condition

 

New

A brand-new, unused, unopened, undamaged item (including handmade items). See the seller's listing for full details.

Used

An item that has been used previously. See the seller's listing for full details and description of any imperfections.

 

If he's selling the box... he was probably telling the true that he hasn't 'used' the box. But yet, define 'using the box', the box was already used to pack all the LEGO bricks. So, maybe technically 'used'.

 

This is really pointing out the insufficient condition tabs in toy listings. I bet a lot of part-outs don't fall in either of the condition tabs. Yet, eBay does tell buyers to READ the listing for full details.

[bricketycricket]

18 minutes ago, cissi said:

Actually it is really a tricky call... as eBay only has two conditions for toys

Condition

 

New

A brand-new, unused, unopened, undamaged item (including handmade items). See the seller's listing for full details.

Used

An item that has been used previously. See the seller's listing for full details and description of any imperfections.

 

If he's selling the box... he was probably telling the true that he hasn't 'used' the box. But yet, define 'using the box', the box was already used to pack all the LEGO bricks. So, maybe technically 'used'.

 

This is really pointing out the insufficient condition tabs in toy listings. I bet a lot of part-outs don't fall in either of the condition tabs. Yet, eBay does tell buyers to READ the listing for full details.

How is it tricky? The word "unopened" is right there in the description of new condition and the box would clearly have to be open.

Edited November 14, 2015 by bricketycricket

[cissi]

6 minutes ago, bricketycricket said:

How is it tricky? The word "unopened" is used in the description of new condition and the box would clearly have to be open.

Sorry if my playing with the words seems confusing... and I wasn't trying to side with the seller, please scroll up and see my comment earlier.

The set is opened, yes.

For selling the box itself... meh, one has to take out the parts to sell the box, assuming it's a new set. Unless there's another container for the box itself, how is it opened?  ....... is my confusing argument. lol

[KShine]

I have sold many empty boxes for a lot of money, so that is not wrong to do (many buyers want them).

To ban a seller for having an item in a category that might not be correct (and could also have been an accident) is crazy (unless there is a pattern of deception).

Especially when you are also stating that a buyer shouldn't need to be responsible enough to read a listing to find out exactly what they are buying.

[Ed Mack]

16 hours ago, jdmpartz said:

dont be so quick to judge.

I have an ebay business (cannot put exact numbers) has 7 numbers.

my feedback is about 30% of actual sales.

 

Just sayin.

As I stated last night, I was on my phone and could not easily access the seller's feedback.  That being said, the listing was very clear on what it stated, but $150 for an empty FB box?  That in itself is questionable.  

[Ed Mack]

10 minutes ago, KShine said:

I have sold many empty boxes for a lot of money, so that is not wrong to do (many buyers want them).

To ban a seller for having an item in a category that might not be correct (and could also have been an accident) is crazy (unless there is a pattern of deception).

Especially when you are also stating that a buyer shouldn't need to be responsible enough to read a listing to find out exactly what they are buying.

Sure, some boxes do sell for big money and I have bought them in the past, but the FB box is not one of them.  

[KShine]

20 minutes ago, Ed Mack said:

Sure, some boxes do sell for big money and I have bought them in the past, but the FB box is not one of them.  

There is a FB set listed for 799 (which is certainly too high) - so a seller does have the right to put up crazy prices. There's also another empty FB box for 65 (which seems like a bargain next to the one for 150), so it does help in making otherwise high prices appear to be low.

The empty boxes are always tricky (since most sane people would never expect an empty box to have such a high value). I have almost always contacted the buyer to confirm that they were aware that it was only for the box. It is certainly better to do that than to get the "I just received an empty box, and I am considering coming over there to kill you" email (that's never fun).

[Ed Mack]

10 minutes ago, KShine said:

There is a FB set listed for 799 (which is certainly too high) - so a seller does have the right to put up crazy prices. There's also another empty FB box for 65 (which seems like a bargain next to the one for 150), so it does help in making otherwise high prices appear to be low.

The empty boxes are always tricky (since most sane people would never expect an empty box to have such a high value). I have almost always contacted the buyer to confirm that they were aware that it was only for the box. It is certainly better to do that than to get the "I just received an empty box, and I am considering coming over there to kill you" email (that's never fun).

You are a quality eBay seller, so you communicate well and price items accordingly.  On the other hand, this seller and listing has multiple issues that should set off alarms in buyers's brains.  In no way am I saying sellers don't have the right to list high prices...they do 100%.  But I can safely say that we all agree that this type of seller and poor listing is bad for eBay and the LEGO secondary market in general.  

[biniou]

(damn my internet browser is like 1% compatible with this new forum)

 

Cissi, about your post : http://community.brickpicker.com/topic/149-10197-fire-brigade/?do=findComment&comment=520024

This is not ... OR ... OR ... OR

This is ... AND ... AND ... AND

:)

[tractorboy]

On 14/11/2015, 21:55:11, Ed Mack said:

You are a quality eBay seller, so you communicate well and price items accordingly.  On the other hand, this seller and listing has multiple issues that should set off alarms in buyers's brains.  In no way am I saying sellers don't have the right to list high prices...they do 100%.  But I can safely say that we all agree that this type of seller and poor listing is bad for eBay and the LEGO secondary market in general.  

Yeah, it's hard not to suspect that the seller was hoping to hook a gullible buyer here. The fact that that he won't offer a refund doesn't look good either. Also, an empty box can in no way be described as 'new', though I don't know if that falls under a 'not as described' criteria.

Any good seller would offer a refund in this case if the buyer made an honest mistake, even if they were stupid enough not to read the description properly. It's just the decent thing to do.