Selling Lego on Amazon.com

[Kenxxx]

5 minutes ago, Phil B said:

Not sure about the "Amazon will cover the A-to-z claim" in the last bit - wouldn't that imply that Amazon pays the buyer, not you?

Hey!... I think you're right!  I hope to go that route.  Perhaps the trick was: the (scammer) buyer filed a claim under "Item not as described" and not under "Item not received"?  Perhaps this way, they get paid faster, and can get away scott-free before Amazon and I can get this sorted out?

[asharerin]

1 hour ago, Kenxxx said:

Hey!... I think you're right!  I hope to go that route.  Perhaps the trick was: the (scammer) buyer filed a claim under "Item not as described" and not under "Item not received"?  Perhaps this way, they get paid faster, and can get away scott-free before Amazon and I can get this sorted out?

Since the A-Z was opened under "Item not as described" you are not covered under the new policy. A buyer has to wait for a certain period of time to be even given the option to choose "Item not received" so often they will choose another reason (as in your case) to be able to open a claim. Amazon buyers are used to instant refunds very quickly all of the time so they will choose whatever option they can to get the claim to go through and Amazon always takes care of their customers first. Without sig confirmation you will lose this one. Best to use sig confirmation all of the time with FBM unless you are a mega seller that can absorb the hits to metrics. If you run into a true scammer (very rare on Amazon) they will fleece you no matter what but sig confirmation will take care of the very common situation of other family members taking the package inside and then your buyer thinking it has not been delivered. At anyone time we always have 3 or 4 unopened boxes in our house and nobody knows what is inside of them and we often think an item has not been delivered until we do open them (and as more and more shopping is done online this situation will become very common). Cover yourself with sig confirmation.

[Kenxxx]

On 11/21/2016 at 6:43 PM, asharerin said:

If you use Amazon to purchase the shipping label then signature confirmation is no longer required. If the customer opens a case for non-delivery then Amazon will refund the buyer directly and you won't even see the case. Sig confirmation is categorized as "friction" by Amazon and their goal is to make buying and delivery as frictionless as possible for their customers (who wants to come home from work expecting a package only to find you won;t be getting it because a seller required a sig on delivery). Hence the new policy.

You would have been better off not getting sig confirmation and buying the label through Amazon. Your scammer was trying to take advantage of the new policy and when you required sig confirmation your scammer was not able to get the item for free. Best to let Amazon pay out of pocket rather than you dealing with a mess. You pay Amazon a hefty fee so let them take care if their customers both good and bad.

Hmmmm... that sounds different than this... >:( 

 

[Darth_Raichu]

Nvm. I re read Amzn response.  Sig for expensive items seem to be the best course of action regardless of Amzn policy

[asharerin]

1 minute ago, Darth_Raichu said:

I do not get it.  How can a signature confirmation protect against "item not described" case?  

In @Kenxxx case, Amzn did not seem to care that the buyer opened this claim for a reason other than not described.

If the buyer waits for the option to choose INR then a bot automatically generates the refund and amazon will foot the bill (on their end they will get refunded by the carrier). In any other situation the case is reviewed and the agent is trained that sig conf is required for delivery. It does not protect against INAD if that is the real reason but amazon customers don't care about choosing the correct return reason. The agent will see this is a case of INR and check for sig conf. Without that the buyer always wins. Onl;y the bot can auto refund the buyer out of Amazon's pocket and that option only exists iof the buyer chooses INR after the waiting period. Amazon customers generally don't like to wait.

 

13 minutes ago, Kenxxx said:

Hmmmm... that sounds different than this... >:( 

 

A true scammer would have known to wait and to choose INR. Your buyer lost the package, not a scammer.

[Kenxxx]

So you are saying then @asharerin , that for any FBM sale with dollar value above our own personal "pain threshold", we should get signature required, because we cannot be certain every buyer will choose the correct A-to-z claim reason. You do realize that this sounds very different than the advice you gave us 8 weeks ago, don't you?

Edited January 14, 2017 by Kenxxx

[asharerin]

1 minute ago, Kenxxx said:

So you are saying then @asharerin , that for any FBM sale with dollar value above our own personal "pain threshold", we should get signature required, because we cannot be certain every buyer will choose the correct A-to-z claim reason. You do realize that this sounds very different than the advice you gave us 8 weeks ago, don't you?

My advice is to examine your business model, run the numbers and see what type of issues you are having and how to best deal with those based on your numbers and your time you have available to spend. In our experience running into true scammers is very rare. Running into time challenged consumers however is very common for us so we take a few extra steps to cut down on the "lost package" scenario. One tool you can choose for that is sig confirmation (my least favorite option as customers don't like sig confirmation).

[exciter1]

Nvm. I re read Amzn response.  Sig for expensive items seem to be the best course of action regardless of Amzn policy

Always has been.

[Kenxxx]

2 minutes ago, asharerin said:

...we take a few extra steps to cut down on the "lost package" scenario. One tool you can choose for that is sig confirmation (my least favorite option as customers don't like sig confirmation).

So what other steps do you take to cut down on lost packages? And do these other steps protect you in an A-to-z claim for "item not as described" ?

[Bold-Arrow]

4 minutes ago, Kenxxx said:

So what other steps do you take to cut down on lost packages? And do these other steps protect you in an A-to-z claim for "item not as described" ?

Make it a habit to read the Amazon seller forums especially the ones that deal with a-z claims , INR and the like . U will quickly see a pattern of what works and what doesn't .. I learned a lot from reading the featured topics . 

[Kenxxx]

2 minutes ago, Bold-Arrow said:

Make it a habit to read the Amazon seller forums especially the ones that deal with a-z claims , INR and the like . U will quickly see a pattern of what works and what doesn't .. I learned a lot from reading the featured topics . 

Appreciate the tip... I admit I spend too much time reading this forum and perhaps not enough educating myself directly at Amazon. But I've always found this forum to be much easier to glean quick, pragmatic answers from. I don't think I'm lazy. I've put in about 4 hours reading the Amazon seller forum this morning and not found much that directly relates to my particular case. (I've also posted my question there.)  That's why I came here.

Back to my original question (rephrased): I sold a product FBM. Used Amazon's Buy Shipping Services platform, with tracking, but did not require signature at delivery. Buyer made  A-to-z claim, and my account has been debited to pay the claim.  Anyone here have luck getting this type of thing reversed? What important points should I make in my appeal to Amazon?

[Bold-Arrow]

9 minutes ago, Kenxxx said:

Appreciate the tip... I admit I spend too much time reading this forum and perhaps not enough educating myself directly at Amazon. But I've always found this forum to be much easier to glean quick, pragmatic answers from. I don't think I'm lazy. I've put in about 4 hours reading the Amazon seller forum this morning and not found much that directly relates to my particular case. (I've also posted my question there.)  That's why I came here.

Back to my original question (rephrased): I sold a product FBM. Used Amazon's Buy Shipping Services platform, with tracking, but did not require signature at delivery. Buyer made  A-to-z claim, and my account has been debited to pay the claim.  Anyone here have luck getting this type of thing reversed? What important points should I make in my appeal to Amazon?

I didn't read all the posts but if shipping was purchased via Amazon u will need to quote that policy and hope for the best as Amazon doesn't always adhere to this rule . It seems that ur items was purchased by a dropshipper and they are blaming you for the mishap when their customer complained to them . 

Golden rule of thumb until Amazon is fully compliant with their shipping purchase rule : if you can't afford to lose the sale , add signture confirmation .  ( it might leave u open to negative feedback if customer misses delivery ) 

[redcell]

1 hour ago, Kenxxx said:

So what other steps do you take to cut down on lost packages? And do these other steps protect you in an A-to-z claim for "item not as described" ?

FBA

[Kenxxx]

I shipped maybe 100 items over the holidays. I just received my second A-to-z claim today for another $190 item. Virtually identical circumstances to the first. Buyer's name different from ship to name, buyer first inquired about delivery, I gave tracking info, buyer initiated A-to-z claim for "Item not as described". Either I have some very bad luck, or this type of scam is getting more common.

[LegoEdison]

55 minutes ago, Bold-Arrow said:

Golden rule of thumb until Amazon is fully compliant with their shipping purchase rule : if you can't afford to lose the sale , add signture confirmation .  ( it might leave u open to negative feedback if customer misses delivery ) 

If you have a scammer buyer, they will find whatever reason to file A-Z. My $550 item shipped with signature, buyer claim item is fake. I'm still dealing with both buyer and Amazon at this moment.

[Bold-Arrow]

10 minutes ago, LegoEdison said:

If you have a scammer buyer, they will find whatever reason to file A-Z. My $550 item shipped with signature, buyer claim item is fake. I'm still dealing with both buyer and Amazon at this moment.

My post was in reference to INR claims . You rarely lose a claim with a signatures for INR

your situation is different . If you have invoices u would be covered however since it is lego then it is a tricky situation .

contrary to popular belief Amazon have measures and policies to protect sellers , however lack of adherence to these policies by both Amazon reps and sellers usually result in a negative outcome .

[LegoEdison]

11 minutes ago, Kenxxx said:

I shipped maybe 100 items over the holidays. I just received my second A-to-z claim today for another $190 item. Virtually identical circumstances to the first. Buyer's name different from ship to name, buyer first inquired about delivery, I gave tracking info, buyer initiated A-to-z claim for "Item not as described". Either I have some very bad luck, or this type of scam is getting more common.

Did you ask the buyer to return? What is your case status for both cases?

[Kenxxx]

14 minutes ago, LegoEdison said:

Did you ask the buyer to return? What is your case status for both cases?

The first claim, I've been discussing here all morning... status: Claim Granted / Seller Funded.  Now I'm just trying to decide what's the best way to appeal.

The second claim I responded as follows:  This is NOT a claim for 'Item Not As Described'. This is an 'Item Not Received' claim and needs to be handled as such. I suspect the buyer may have given the wrong claim reason in order to receive faster refund. The item WAS shipped on time, and was in no way 'materially different' than the product listing. Buyer's claim is null for this reason. Please have the buyer explain exactly HOW the item is different than the product listing. If this is an 'Item Not Received' claim, I am prepared to provide proof of delivery for Amazon. 

... I doubt I will have any success with that, but thought I'd try something different than just providing tracking info, etc.  Claim Status is "Under Review"

[Bold-Arrow]

5 minutes ago, Kenxxx said:

The first claim, I've been discussing here all morning... status: Claim Granted / Seller Funded.  Now I'm just trying to decide what's the best way to appeal.

The second claim I responded as follows:  This is NOT a claim for 'Item Not As Described'. This is an 'Item Not Received' claim and needs to be handled as such. I suspect the buyer may have given the wrong claim reason in order to receive faster refund. The item WAS shipped on time, and was in no way 'materially different' than the product listing. Buyer's claim is null for this reason. Please have the buyer explain exactly HOW the item is different than the product listing. If this is an 'Item Not Received' claim, I am prepared to provide proof of delivery for Amazon. 

... I doubt I will have any success with that, but thought I'd try something different than just providing tracking info, etc.  Claim Status is "Under Review"

Don't take my post to be overly critical but that's a bad reply to an AZ claim 

[newbie77]

7 minutes ago, Bold-Arrow said:

Don't take my post to be overly critical but that's a bad reply to an AZ claim 

A-Z response has to be short. bullet point and facts that can be proved by documentation. 

[ he said she said or insinuation will just weaken your case ]

[Kenxxx]

12 minutes ago, Bold-Arrow said:

Don't take my post to be overly critical but that's a bad reply to an AZ claim 

I know it's not a good reply... but I answered with bullet points and tracking numbers to the first claim and they ruled against me pretty easily.  I just figured, "Could it turn out any worse if I tried something a little 'out of the box' this time?" Maybe if I say "I have proof" and not reveal it (ala... Trump) maybe I'll be able to have a real conversation with someone.

[Bold-Arrow]

3 minutes ago, Kenxxx said:

I know it's not a good reply... but I answered with bullet points and tracking numbers to the first claim and they ruled against me pretty easily.  I just figured, "Could it turn out any worse if I tried something a little 'out of the box' this time?" Maybe if I say "I have proof" and not reveal it (ala... Trump) maybe I'll be able to have a real conversation with someone.

You are almost certain to lose the claim that way .. I understand your frustration but your goal is to keep emotions out of it and win the claim . Good luck though  

[newbie77]

1 hour ago, redcell said:

FBA

FBA doesn't protect you fully. you may not get the same crap. but people sending home paints instead of your item back has been a constant problem with FBA.

 

[micbelt]

So all my Lego items now say blocked unless fba. This just happened today. Anyone else have this happen? Account health is good and have been selling Lego for a couple of years both fba and fbm.

[exciter1]

So all my Lego items now say blocked unless fba. This just happened today. Anyone else have this happen? Account health is good and have been selling Lego for a couple of years both fba and fbm.

Not me, and I just listed and sold some FBM items today.