Ciglione Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 8 minutes ago, brickolodon said: Its cost nothing...to ask. Explanation: I am not sure Bulgaria and other former "behind the curtain" countries are doing better now. They just moved from another undemocratic union to another. And if they are in better shape than before 1989... my question was... at who's expense? For example... Greece is in a far worse shape now than somewhat 10 years ago. Even with multi-billion loans they call injections. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Val-E Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 2 minutes ago, Ciglione said: Explanation: I am not sure Bulgaria and other former "behind the curtain" countries are doing better now. They just moved from another undemocratic union to another. And if they are in better shape than before 1989... my question was... at who's expense? For example... Greece is in a far worse shape now than somewhat 10 years ago. Even with multi-billion loans they call injections. I agree and that is what will happen to the UK. You can polish a turd all you want (as leave campaigners have tried) but it´s still a turd underneath. Funny that now there is no rush from anyone in the UK to go forward with the Brexit, you would think it would be first priority to take the country back from the Eurocrats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciglione Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 1 minute ago, Val-E said: I agree and that is what will happen to the UK. You can polish a turd all you want (as leave campaigners have tried) but it´s still a turd underneath. Funny that now there is no rush from anyone in the UK to go forward with the Brexit, you would think it would be first priority to take the country back from the Eurocrats. I do not think it is that simple. The fine printed words in the treaties are lacking in the case a country exits the EU. Cause they simply never thought a country would have the guts to leave the EU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will 4 Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 Just now, Val-E said: I agree and that is what will happen to the UK. You can polish a turd all you want (as leave campaigners have tried) but it´s still a turd underneath. Funny that now there is no rush from anyone in the UK to go forward with the Brexit, you would think it would be first priority to take the country back from the Eurocrats. The Conservative party members like myself need to elect a new leader to be prime minster after Conservative MP's have picked two candidates out of the crop of five which is now 4 where they whittle them down one by one the 4 remaining are Andrea Leadsom (Leave) Michel Gove (leave) Stephen Crabbe(remain) and Thearsa May (remain and topped first MP's vote) Then there is the question of does this person have a mandate or do they require a general election as the other manifesto is geared to a remain vote so that could add more months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Val-E Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 Just now, Will 4 said: The Conservative party members like myself need to elect a new leader to be prime minster after Conservative MP's have picked two candidates out of the crop of five which is now 4 where they whittle them down one by one the 4 remaining are Andrea Leadsom (Leave) Michel Gove (leave) Stephen Crabbe(remain) and Thearsa May (remain and topped first MP's vote) Then there is the question of does this person have a mandate or do they require a general election as the other manifesto is geared to a remain vote so that could add more months. I think the fairest thing would be to call a General Election and make the EU issue the key point with each party drawing a clear line whether they are pro or contra and committing to invoke the article to leave after that if that is what people still want. After all, the actual referendum so far seems only to have muddied the waters and been a vote of confidence in the PM. The Tories shouldn´t lose with the way Labour are right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will 4 Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 Stephen Crabbe dropped out and has backed May which means we are down to 3, Thursday is the next vote May is guaranteed to be one of the 2 for members to vote for so either Leadsom or Gove. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciglione Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 2 minutes ago, Val-E said: I think the fairest thing would be to call a General Election and make the EU issue the key point with each party drawing a clear line whether they are pro or contra and committing to invoke the article to leave after that if that is what people still want. After all, the actual referendum so far seems only to have muddied the waters and been a vote of confidence in the PM. The Tories shouldn´t lose with the way Labour are right now. They just need to act according to the will of the people. The people voted for leaving the EU. It is not that difficult. And... I would say the same if the remain camp would have won the referendum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Val-E Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 2 minutes ago, Will 4 said: Stephen Crabbe dropped out and has backed May which means we are down to 3, Thursday is the next vote May is guaranteed to be one of the 2 for members to vote for so either Leadsom or Gove. Imagine if May were to win it. Then you have the paradox of a remain PM being morally (naive word for politics, I know) obliged to carry out the leave process! Really she should then call a general election and if she is voted in and able to form a majority government, go against the original referendum. Tzipras had little compunction in going against the austerity referendum he called so it wouldn´t be a first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will 4 Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 6 minutes ago, Val-E said: I think the fairest thing would be to call a General Election and make the EU issue the key point with each party drawing a clear line whether they are pro or contra and committing to invoke the article to leave after that if that is what people still want. After all, the actual referendum so far seems only to have muddied the waters and been a vote of confidence in the PM. The Tories shouldn´t lose with the way Labour are right now. It was a vote to punish Cameron for upsetting Conservative voters by threatening them over pensions (Elderly people) and for not carrying out certain manifesto promises. Do not underestimate how many have been upset by this look at European election people see them as a protest vote which is why so many UKIP people get sent as MEP's this is seen as punishing the government on a pointless issue to most. also here is an article on the vote http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36718196 I do feel that there should be a general election as it should not be me and conservative party members selecting the PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
botchy123 Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 The bigger concern for eveyone is the EU banking crisis. What happens to the Italian, Spanish and German Banks when Greece defaults ? http://demonocracy.info/infographics/eu/debt_greek/debt_greek.html Thank god we never joined the Euro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciglione Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 5 minutes ago, Val-E said: Tzipras had little compunction in going against the austerity referendum he called so it wouldn´t be a first. And that would make it right? 1 minute ago, botchy123 said: Thank god we never joined the Euro. Yes, you should, every day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Val-E Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 3 minutes ago, botchy123 said: The bigger concern for eveyone is the EU banking crisis. What happens to the Italian, Spanish and German Banks when Greece defaults ? http://demonocracy.info/infographics/eu/debt_greek/debt_greek.html Thank god we never joined the Euro. Deutsche Bank and Santander have failed US stress tests and considering Santander is one of the biggest banking groups in the world (and that includes the UK), everyone should be worried about the consequences of them going pop whether they trade in Euros, Pounds or potatoes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will 4 Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 Fox 5th candidate has Backed May. Now she may have the majority in MP's over the leave candidates but the membership will not necessarily vote the same way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregpj Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 5 minutes ago, botchy123 said: The bigger concern for eveyone is the EU banking crisis. What happens to the Italian, Spanish and German Banks when Greece defaults ? http://demonocracy.info/infographics/eu/debt_greek/debt_greek.html The way the world's economy is tied together, it would be nice if all major countries/groups/unions/etc took notice of these debt issues. Too many countries and people spend into oblivion. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Val-E Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 3 minutes ago, Ciglione said: And that would make it right? No but it was another case of political idiocy. If the EU had called his bluff as they are doing with the UK then we would have been rid of Greece by now but everyone was bricking it over the consequences. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregpj Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 1 minute ago, Val-E said: No but it was another case of political idiocy. If the EU had called his bluff as they are doing with the UK then we would have been rid of Greece by now but everyone was bricking it over the consequences. My like was simply for tying it back to LEGO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Val-E Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 Just now, gregpj said: The way the world's economy is tied together, it would be nice if all major countries/groups/unions/etc took notice of these debt issues. Too many countries and people spend into oblivion. But one of the conditions of joining the common currency was to control spending and debt yet practically all member states have at one time or another been unable to stick to the rules (or cooked the books to make it seem they did). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciglione Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 2 minutes ago, Val-E said: No but it was another case of political idiocy. If the EU had called his bluff as they are doing with the UK then we would have been rid of Greece by now but everyone was bricking it over the consequences. Exactly... if Greece was to leave the EU and return to their original currency they could devaluate it. So become competitive again. Ofcourse it would mean X years of recession and hardship. But in the end they would get better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will 4 Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 2 minutes ago, Val-E said: But one of the conditions of joining the common currency was to control spending and debt yet practically all member states have at one time or another been unable to stick to the rules (or cooked the books to make it seem they did). Yes but it is good for the leading country (Germany) as it enables them to export cheaply. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregpj Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 Just now, Val-E said: But one of the conditions of joining the common currency was to control spending and debt yet practically all member states have at one time or another been unable to stick to the rules (or cooked the books to make it seem they did). Governments are not unlike corporations ... they almost all lie and cook the books. It's just that some cook with the intent of eventually digging themselves out and others say it's for the next generation. (I know that's a pretty blanket statement, but even small companies tend to cook the books and use whatever borderline accounting practices that are available to them in order to survive those lean years.) I wonder if they realized that if they'd all just stop doing that shit we'd be better off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Val-E Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 2 minutes ago, gregpj said: My like was simply for tying it back to LEGO. The consequences for Lego investors have already been made clear: 1) a cheap pound increases UK exports so resellers will make more money provided Lego does not raise their RRP´s 2) If the pound is cheap long term, inflation will rise and so will interest rates so more conservative investors will seek refuge in savings accounts. Also, higher interest rates will make buying lego on borrowed money more expensive. 3) If and when freedom of movement of goods to and from the EU disappears, it will then be harder (and more expensive) to import and export Lego. 4) Irish sellers will have things tough if they only sell to the UK but will benefit from cheap deals in NI that they can then sell on to the Eurozone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Val-E Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 5 minutes ago, Will 4 said: Yes but it is good for the leading country (Germany) as it enables them to export cheaply. That´s a good point - a strong Mark would have been a problem and we have seen how the Swiss are having to actively devalue their currency as it is a safe haven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciglione Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 I have a feeling this thread is about to be locked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Val-E Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 2 minutes ago, Ciglione said: I have a feeling this thread is about to be locked. 41999 limited edition crawler - there, I did it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will 4 Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 2 minutes ago, Ciglione said: I have a feeling this thread is about to be locked. Well it has not descended in to insults yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.