Lord of the Rings/The Hobbit - general discussion

[fantomas007]

I dont see a problem that these sets are incoplete, or small - because the main potential of them lies on minifigures. Future AFOLs can build ANY building or scenario from LOTR / Hobbit, but he cannot replaced the unique figs. So everybody will need many orcs for Helm scene, everybody will need hobbits, elfs, etc. I have seen the potential of this theme on popularity and price of elfs from CMF serie 3. I have believed in this theme a lot - because it has a great AFOL potential. It is a typical theme, which can be widely popular for AFOL in future and also any years after Hobit movies - because LOTR/Hobbit popularity stays also on the books, which are timeless. Thatswhy I have bought many sets from the first waves. But now I have some doubts. One reason is that these sets are not selling very well (otherwise they would not be discounted in many shops), another reason is that this theme isnt finished - there is no sign that 3rd wave of LOTR will come. But without the completion of key characters this theme will be much less valued! Now I really dont know what to think about the potential of this theme.... I have big worries, because my storage is full of these sets, including less popular sets such as Moria or Goblin king...

[TheDarkness]

I am happy with my LOTR collection. A lot of fear is born out of impatience and the lack of instant results. Not every investment works that way.
I am not as convinced on the Hobbit side of things, though there are key figures that purists and completists will want. Elves, dwarves, trolls, wargs, orcs, wizards, Uruk-hai...

[glenbart]

A trilogy revamp may come along, you never know, tv series....

[spener90]

I think Mines of Moria is a solid set if you put 2 or 3 of them together.  The crypt just wasn't big enough, or maybe it should have been a $120 set.

This seems to be a constant complaint with this theme.  The need to combine multiple same sets to make them the appropriate size, which I feel will hurt the investment potential.

[JosephMali]

I think this theme is doing rather well so far since you can buy most of the sets around 50% off except Orthanc and Helms Deep (25% to 30% off was the best I found). The MM is doing well if you only paid $40 a set. The latest wave of Hobbit sets does leave a lot to be desired, but again AFOLs can buy three or four of each set and make things in the kind of detail and according to the scale that they wish. As far as castles go Helms Deep was a nice departure from the previous paradigm. Yes, the Pirate Ship is not that great, but the minifigs are awesome. I hope they continue this theme since there is so much potential and room to make huge sets. I want to see the White Tower (Minas Tirith), an Oliphant (spelling?), and some Nazgul, a Balrog, and Treebeard as well as a set with cave and waterfall with Faramir and his woodsmen. Is that asking too much? Probably.

[spener90]

A trilogy revamp may come along, you never know, tv series....

I am pretty confident we will see them remaster the LOTR Trilogy in 3d.

[biniou]

LOTR and Hobbit themes are related.

So it's normal not to see the oldest or retired sets rise in value, because people are still waiting for the third Hobbit movie and toyline.

 

People will not go for the previous lego sets until then. And they will not crazy-jump on it because it has been avalaible for a long time until recently.

 

Play sets and little sets are meh and only figs are interesting: troll of the moria mines, gollum...

Appealing sets will be ok (hobbit house, pirate ship, tower of O., shelob...) because not only they are cool themed sets, but they are also cool sets by themselves (cute forest house, cool pirate ship, impressive big dark tower, giant spider...)

[Darth_Raichu]

Both lines are crap. I could not sell the sets for 2x MSRP when they were still in production.  Blah blah blah boring, blah blah blah small, blah blah blah brown  *

 

 

 

 

 

*The last set I criticized / blasted did rather well after EOL.. so here is hoping

[Grolim]

A lot of the sets in both lines fall into the unfortunate trap of having to slot into different price points on the retail scale.  Each wave had to have sets ranging right through each pricing bracket.  As such most of the small or medium sized sets failed to truly capture the source material and appeal to collectors.  The strength really is those minifigures.

 

From a personal position I have collected every LotR, but only one Hobbit (UG).  As a big fan of both the books and the movies (hey it's compulsory, I'm from NZ!) I feel that my own thoughts should somewhat mirror those of the secondary market collector, as I've said before, it's the AFOLs, not the kids providing the majority of growth for these themes.  One thing I want in a set is display potential.  "Playing" with sets holds zero interest.  Flick fire missiles on Weathertop!  Give me a break!

 

My LotR rankings go like this:

1. Tower of Orthanc - No contest. One of my favourite sets of all time.  So damn impressive looking.
2. Helm's Deep + Uruk Hai Army - It really needs the additional clip-on to make the Deeping Wall look semi-realistic, plus the extra minifigs to bulk out the army
3. Pirate Ship - It always gets great comments from guests.  Not Immediately recognizable as an LotR set but the minifigs (9! including King of the Dead!) pull it through.  It's big and commands attention.
4. Black Gate - another imposing looking set.  Especially if 2 are joined together (I still need to get around to doing this!).  Mouth of Sauron who only shows up in the extended cut movies/books as well.
5. Shelob - Giant Spider, enough said
6. Council of Elrond - small but looks really nice on display with it's minifigs.  Nice colour schemes.
7. Everything else - most of these have been put away back in the closet with only minifigs left out.  They generally have nothing to warrant some of my limited display space.

[bricker123]

I still believe balrog or sauron will show up. Lotr set needs something more epic like the big battle in return of the king (pirate ship leads to the end of the battle after all, and black gates is after the big battle). Others like the ringwraith on the flying snake(?) would be cool also, or the destruction of the ring as a small set.

Sent from my iPad using Brickpicker

[Ensche]

IF you want TLG to produce more of the LOTR sets, this online petition http://www.change.org/p/save-lego-the-lord-of-the-rings could help. Fans want TLG to produce more sets (Gondor, Sauron, etc...). Therefore they started a petition. Hmm, could be worth a try signing...

[legoray01]

The one I think that will do well is the Unexpected Gathering.  It is iconic to both tales.  There are not a lot of sets that have the ability to show up in a number of different movies. 

 

Also, I always wonder if they will make a movie out of the tale of the return to the shire at the end of the Return of the King, the battle of Wormtoungue.  .   They pretty much skipped over it in the movie but since they made  three movies out of the Hobbit it can't be too hard to plan a movie for this story and make half a billion dollars. 

 

Either way - I still think the hobbit house is cool and under appreciated as a scene piece.

[beatpoppa]

Signed.  

 

You are the greatest toy company in the world.  These are arguably the greatest books ever written - so full of imagery they spawned an entire genre.

 

Make money.  Gouge me even.  But do not screw this up.

 

Rivendell (unforgivable - crucial to both trilogies) 

Gondor (enormous oversight given everyone would want to buy it)

Mount Doom (disappointing) 

[templesweeper]

The one I think that will do well is the Unexpected Gathering.  It is iconic to both tales.  There are not a lot of sets that have the ability to show up in a number of different movies. 

 

Also, I always wonder if they will make a movie out of the tale of the return to the shire at the end of the Return of the King, the battle of Wormtoungue.  .   They pretty much skipped over it in the movie but since they made  three movies out of the Hobbit it can't be too hard to plan a movie for this story and make half a billion dollars. 

 

Either way - I still think the hobbit house is cool and under appreciated as a scene piece.

I pretty much agree.  I think that Unexpected Gathering is the best set in the entire series.  It may not reach the overall price point of something like Helm's Deep or Orthanc since the starting price point on those was higher, but the Shire/Bag End is iconic.  I bought one for our family display, and it gets more positive comments from people than anything else.  The detail on the inside of the set is pretty remarkable.  The journal, writing desk, the stove, the table, maps of middle earth on the floor...they crammed a lot of creativity in that little space.

[Stud-u-like]

The Harry Potter theme had such high demand (by end users) that the sealed sets became rare and valuable in just a few months, I don't believe the L.O.T.R. Sets have anything like the appeal to the end user and this is reflected in their relative performance.

I don't think it's going to be a dud by any means but I think the balance of supply and demand will not be in the investors favour for a long time yet.

Personally I'm clearing out a load of my L.O.T.R. Inventory which I bought at discount, my current prices are barely above retail but I feel the capital would be better off sunk into Super Heroes and Star Wars at this present time.

It's a good game.

Stu.

[shudameister]

I work in a toystore and notice kids don't go near LOTR, but they go near Star Wars. I have asked many kids if they have seen the movies. Nope. Are you going to build this big set all by yourself. Nope, I just want the minifigures. They know about it because of the tv show that is on cartoon network. 

 

Grandparents and parents gravitate towards LOTR. They see the "age range" and move towards a city set. I think if there was no age range on the sets more people would buy it. But they tell littly Jimmy that the set is too hard. Yet, a 14 year-old would rather have a more complex and involved set

[DoNotInsertIntoMouth]

I think these sets more follow my theory that a big factor in a sets after retirement growth is HOW the set retires.

 

Most of these LOTR sets were available up until Christmas. There wasn't a shortage, they didn't just disappear. They were around still for a while found in clearance isles, at TRU etc.

 

This dampens it. I think after the Christmas boom hits and people realize they can't find these sets at all anywhere anymore, they will grow more. And when the whole LOTR theme is gone and we just have hobbit.

[junkrigger]

LOTR/Hobbit are possibly the most epic Books/Movies of all time.  They are timeless fantasy adventure tales that I think will outlive all others as they are literary works of art.  These books are to sophisticated for children unlike Harry Potter, so their fan base is perhaps smaller and different.  I would buy and build a $500 Gondor or Minas Morgal without hesitation, though I have yet to build my 10179 acquired years ago.  Everyone has their favorites and I hope these books, movies and lego sets will bring joy to many in the coming years and decades.

[inversion]

LEGO missed the boat on LotR. For the target audience 1 large exclusive per year with 10+ figs (mostly named characters) and some battle packs (footsoldiers) would have sufficed. The large sets could have reflected the iconic locations like Orthanc does, while the battle packs could have been the perfect supplements. However according to their design principles LEGO doesn't create new molds for exclusives, only in special cases and they will still try to make pieces that are usable in other sets as well (e.g. Tumbler tires).

[biniou]

LEGO missed the boat on LotR. For the target audience 1 large exclusive per year with 10+ figs (mostly named characters) and some battle packs (footsoldiers) would have sufficed. The large sets could have reflected the iconic locations like Orthanc does, while the battle packs could have been the perfect supplements. However according to their design principles LEGO doesn't create new molds for exclusives, only in special cases and they will still try to make pieces that are usable in other sets as well (e.***. Tumbler tires).

What you are talking about is the best for AFOLs who are ok to spend a lot of money in very big sets ($200) and add to them some battle packs, but for LEGO certainly the most rentabel is to produce 20/30/50 dollars sets and a quite big ($100) with a lot of playabilty (hard to make minas tirith in a $100 set) because it's simply more affordable for kids (the largest audience).

[inversion]

What you are talking about is the best for AFOLs who are ok to spend a lot of money in very big sets ($200) and add to them some battle packs, but for LEGO certainly the most rentabel is to produce 20/30/50 dollars sets and a quite big ($100) with a lot of playabilty (hard to make minas tirith in a $100 set) because it's simply more affordable for kids (the largest audience).

I mean no offense, but I think you did not get my point. I agree with you in general, but LEGO shouldn't have targeted kids with LotR from the beginning because that audience just doesn't care about it. That's where your argument fails: nobody, neither adults nor kids needed those playsets you are talking about. LotR is obviously an AFOL theme with no clear potential among children. Hobbit sets would have been enough to cater for the kids' needs since the related movie is more childish. 

 

In essence LEGO fell between two stools. It picked a very popular AFOL theme and made sets for children from it and now they wonder why it was selling bad. Additionally they released them in conjunction with the Hobbit sets and kids want the ones they see in the movies. The children's market was oversaturated. I concluded that releasing regular playsets was pointless, since I guess that even like this way mostly adults bought them. LEGO should have known this and released LotR only as exclusives, just like they did with the Simpsons. 

[Ciglione]

I never 100% believed in LOTR. Hobbit I hate. I bought only 6 LOTR sets Orthanc (1), Helm's Deep (1), Uruk Hai (3) and Orc Forge (1). Hobbit I bought none (happy about that).

 

Like many have said already, it is aimed at AFOLS. It takes time before new AFOLS arrive. Be patient! The current ones who like LOTR already own them I suppose. 

 

When my LOTR sets reach a decent ROI (50% or more) I will dump them. This is one of the many themes/sets that do not fit my investing strategy anymore. It may do good in a couple of years. So for the peeps who went in deep on these, I hope it will rise to the moon.   

[biniou]

(...)

My point is just that "if lego want to make some LOTR sets with the 8/12 years old ratio on it, they have to do small and playable sets".

 

But otherwise, yes of course, it would have been faaaaaar better in my opinion too to have some "Lego modulars/expert LOTR" (sort of) with something like a 14+ years old  on it.

[Spartikis]

Give it time, keep in mind the Theme is still active and most sets have been retired for less than a year. Its hard to expect massive growth of a retired set when someone who wants a LOTR set can just go to any big box store and buy one, no need to go online and pay 2-3x inflated prices, at least not yet. Once the theme is retired though you will see rapid growth. Also, keeping a castle theme with LOTR was a stupid move on LEGOs part, to many choices in the same types of themes.

 

LOTR may not return the massive profit some people are execting, but then again LEGO in general is not returning the massive profits it was 5-10 years ago, a lot more investors out there. But i have no worries that LOTR will be successful in the aftermarket.

[zskid00]

This theme has turned into a longer-term investment for me for sure.  I was expecting another wave of LOTR to spur secondary prices of the first wave that has retired, but it's pretty obvious that LEGO is going to be done after the last Hobbit wave and movie come out.  I wonder how long they will carry this theme into 2015 as a lot of retailers seem to have bailed on it in favor of newer sets coming out.  This last wave of Hobbit sets could have a pretty short and limited run by LEGO standards.