COVID-19 / Coronavirus Discussion

[waddamon]

This is way overkill in my opinion, it won't change until it just goes away.  No one will be held responsible for creating panic.  My state has 6 cases, so dire they get to self quarantine at home and because of that my kids school was shut down for three weeks.  I would love to know what other highly infectious diseases were diagnosed this week to the tune of 6 people that everything was shut down over 100 people.

[BricksBrotha]

5 hours ago, waddamon said:

This is way overkill in my opinion, it won't change until it just goes away.  No one will be held responsible for creating panic.  My state has 6 cases, so dire they get to self quarantine at home and because of that my kids school was shut down for three weeks.  I would love to know what other highly infectious diseases were diagnosed this week to the tune of 6 people that everything was shut down over 100 people.

If you understood social distancing, you would understand WHY it’s necessary.  There is no current cure and it kills older people. Why does it have to affect you in order for it to be important? Do you not have parents, grand parents Aunts Uncles that you care about?! We are past containment, mitigation is now the only thing that will help slow the spread.  This has been known for CENTURIES within the scientific communities!! These measure being taken may seem draconian, but they are necessary and should have happened months ago.  Funny how Disney closing and pro sports canceling is what made people perk up.  Honestly people, we wouldn’t be in this dire scenario had we reacted sooner.  And for those defending our POTUS, quite sad. Foreigners have the absolute right to be critical of him.  

[BricksBrotha]

6 hours ago, brickolodon said:

 

Isn’t there a way to mute certain users? 

[labfreak7]

On 3/11/2020 at 12:23 PM, fuzzy_bricks said:

What do you all want the government to do?  If they start shutting things down or quarantining people there will be people channeling their inner Rage Against the Machine and saying "eff you I won't do what you tell me."  They don't make anything unless they contract with someone, like New York and their sanitizer with a very nice floral bouquet scent.

They could certainly provide some best practices, but peoples lives have to go on.  Having kids stay home from school is a big deal for working parents, especially if you don't have time off. Having people stay home from work is going to possibly affect their paychecks.  Government getting involved complicates things.

What I want the government to do is make available, and process these tests (a swab in a test tube that they test using RT-pcr I believe). We did PCR tests in grad school, so I know it’s not that difficult. How do lesser healthcare systems have such efficiency, whereas the greatest country in the world is lagging behind??

[KvHulk]

Everyone needs to calm the **** down.

[brickolodon]

Everyone needs to calm the **** down.

https://apple.news/AKvqqClDARUyJ_8fFyvaO4w
Don’t take it personal most of panic from media or looks like...

[nolan808]

It's a shambles here in the Uk. Government don't seem to give a crap about the elderly and vulnerable with what there doing. The UK are literally doing nothing and seem happy to infect people and just see how it goes. God knows why the usa are letting the uk still travel to them with what's going on here.

Imo schools should already be shut and people should be told to stay there distances from others plus banning large gatherings, this will get out of control in the uk by looking at what boris is doing. Schools will be the one place the infection will spread like wild fire, kids will unknowingly bring it home to parents and the elderly and then it becomes deadly. Just because they say kids aren't as bad with the infection doesn't mean they carry it to others any differently. The measures should be put it place early just like other country's have done to prevent the spread and not just wait it out until it gets to a really serious point just like what's happening in Italy right now.

Yes you have people saying that shutting schools etc would impact parent and nhs workers but the majority of us here believe that its more important to stop the spread now and protect our kids at home and the elderly. Imo the NHS workers and parents are much more likely to get the infection if we continue to leave the schools open and don't put any other measures into place. We should all care about others and do our best to protect the elderly and people with serious health conditions.

The NHS here are also way under equipped, nurses and doctors haven't got the right stuff to protect themselves, not enough beds and ventilators are available. NHS workers also can't get back to work quickly if they go down sick as the test just aren't there quick enough for them. The official figures shown on infections are simply nowhere near how many people are infected in this country as they just simply aren't testing enough of us. People are already saying that at least 10 thousand people are infected and probably more.

The government here are playing with peoples life's and I am shocked they haven't put any more measures into effect to protect the country. 

It's hard to get all my points across, but I'm just so angry with how are country are responding to all this.

Shut schools now and large gatherings, distance measures should also be put in place.

 

 

Edited March 13, 2020 by raulaco

[BricksBrotha]

1 hour ago, labfreak7 said:

What I want the government to do is make available, and process these tests (a swab in a test tube that they test using RT-pcr I believe). We did PCR tests in grad school, so I know it’s not that difficult. How do lesser healthcare systems have such efficiency, whereas the greatest country in the world is lagging behind??

The CDC dragged their feet developing the test and refused purchasing any other country's version of a test. There are reports from health care providers the tests developed by the CDC were being delivered 3-4 weeks late and producing false positives and false negatives and took 8-24 hours for results! Inaccurate and lengthy, how advance of the CDC!  There are pcr versions that only take 3 hours, I believe. On average 6 hrs max. Again, for profit and red tape in the way of our health care system. 

My wife has friends that are RN's in both the SanDiego and Myrtle Beach hospitals.  They hadn't done anything in preparation and are just now testing and finding cases in the patients and staff.  This feels like only the beginning of the curve of the graph from 1918. Until we apex and healthy people gain natural immunity, it feels inevitable its only going to get worse with the fuel being media, dooms day preppers, un-educated,  brickolodon...

 

[Legojona]

I'm mostly afraid of the side effects of the panic. I think those are very real. Sorry to hear about the people getting laid off. 

In the Netherlands the stores are getting emptier and social gatherings are canceled. I worry for the elderly that are at the least socially isolated and at worst not recovering. 

Sad stuff. 

Blaming politicians for this is easy right now, but I will wait for the research afterwards to have a verdict. 

[BricksBrotha]

4 minutes ago, raulaco said:

It's hard to get all my points across, but I'm just so angry with how are country are responding to all this.

Shut schools now and large gatherings, distance measures should also be put in place.

I can feel for your situation. You are clearly frustrated and have every right to be so. Protect yourself and do certain quarantine measures early, its your best defense.  Best of luck to our UK friends and everyone else. Stay safe.

[nolan808]

2 minutes ago, BricksBrotha said:

I can feel for your situation. You are clearly frustrated and have every right to be so. Protect yourself and do certain quarantine measures early, its your best defense.  Best of luck to our UK friends and everyone else. Stay safe.

Thank you for that reply. Very concerned about the elderly and vulnerable with what's going on here. Hope it all works out in the USA also.

[jaisonline]

Some folks might be helped if they read facts before giving opinions.


https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/the-facts-on-coronavirus-testing/


https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/false-claim-about-cdcs-global-anti-pandemic-work/

[BricksBrotha]

8 hours ago, waddamon said:

This is way overkill in my opinion, it won't change until it just goes away.  No one will be held responsible for creating panic.  My state has 6 cases

What you should be researching is how many tests your state was 'allocated'.  The US is currently under-testing by what appears to be in the tens to hundreds of thousands of potentially infected. This thing spreads harder and faster than the common cold and kills ederly people.  What more does it take for people to understand viruses are real.  Its hard to have a normal conversation when people try to compare to a zombie apacolypes.  Pandemics have happened, are happening, will happen again. Its just amazing we as the public, cant learn from history.

 

14 minutes ago, jaisonline said:

Some folks might be helped if they read facts before giving opinions.


https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/the-facts-on-coronavirus-testing/


https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/false-claim-about-cdcs-global-anti-pandemic-work/

I work with PCR, they bungled the roll out. The actual live strain was prohibited for use and they primarily used strains grown in a lab from a master seed. once in the feild (late) they were met with false data sets of sampes we refer to as fsp (feild sample panels) basically unpredictable customer samples.  The results were all over the map. Of course we all choose to believe what we would like. 

The fact of the matter was, other countries already had the pcr nailed down to 3 hours and it was very specific. The test kit doesnt not need to eliminate SARS. All of these primer probes and other bonding sites make the test too complicated. I would aslo suggest people when doing research about a scientific topic to read published articles that have been peer reviewed and backed by proper scientific method.

There is still little collected data for the public to view so all numbers are being provided by government agency who are proving to currently be  only interested in protecting profits.

here is also a good read.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/02/united-states-badly-bungled-coronavirus-testing-things-may-soon-improve

Edited March 13, 2020 by BricksBrotha

[brickvoyeur]

All markets are being destroyed by COVID-19. They've run out of new things to write about so it seems.

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/seattle-sex-workers-covid19-coronavirus-094500177.html

Edited March 13, 2020 by brickvoyeur

[Darth_Raichu]

1 hour ago, BricksBrotha said:

I work with PCR, they bungled the roll out. The actual live strain was prohibited for use and they primarily used strains grown in a lab from a master seed. once in the feild (late) they were met with false data sets of sampes we refer to as fsp (feild sample panels) basically unpredictable customer samples.  The results were all over the map. Of course we all choose to believe what we would like. 

The fact of the matter was, other countries already had the pcr nailed down to 3 hours and it was very specific. The test kit doesnt not need to eliminate SARS. All of these primer probes and other bonding sites make the test too complicated. I would aslo suggest people when doing research about a scientific topic to read published articles that have been peer reviewed and backed by proper scientific method.

There is still little collected data for the public to view so all numbers are being provided by government agency who are proving to currently be  only interested in protecting profits.

here is also a good read.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/02/united-states-badly-bungled-coronavirus-testing-things-may-soon-improve

Based on that article and the one I found below, the root cause for the failed testing was red tape and government bureaucracy:

Quote

Don’t blame PCR itself for the lack of reliable tests, though. According to Duane Newton, the director of clinical microbiology at the University of Michigan, the biggest limitation in diagnostics is not the technology, but rather the regulatory approval process for new tests and platforms. 

Also:

Quote

Case in point: FDA rules initially prevented state and commercial labs from developing their own coronavirus diagnostic tests, even if they could develop coronavirus PCR primers on their own. So when the only available test suddenly turned out to be bunk, no one could actually say what primer sets worked.

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/615323/why-the-cdc-botched-its-coronavirus-testing/

 

Lol and here I thought US was supposed to the center of innovation and entrepreneurship.   

 

Meanwhile, in Japan a private corporation is already producing and selling 15 MINUTES COVID-19 test kits NEXT WEEK.  
Read that again, FIFTEEN F-ING MINUTES !!!  While the government backed CDC is just now producing accurate tests that take HOURS to complete.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/03/13/national/kurabo-import-sell-kits-can-detect-new-coronavirus-15-minutes-next-week/#.XmuHVKhKiM8

 

And some people want even more government and bureaucracy in their lives.  

[BricksBrotha]

47 minutes ago, Darth_Raichu said:

Based on that article and the one I found below, the root cause for the failed testing was red tape and government bureaucracy:

Also:

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/615323/why-the-cdc-botched-its-coronavirus-testing/

 

Lol and here I thought US was supposed to the center of innovation and entrepreneurship   

 

Meanwhile, in Japan a private corporation is already producing and selling 15 MINUTES COVID-19 test kits NEXT WEEK.  
Read that again, FIFTEEN F-ING MINUTES !!!  While the government backed CDC is just now producing accurate tests that take HOURS to complete

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/03/13/national/kurabo-import-sell-kits-can-detect-new-coronavirus-15-minutes-next-week/#.XmuHVKhKiM8

 

And some people want even more government and bureaucracy in their lives

I apologize if my statements come across as emphatic, but please dont confuse it with hysteria.  I agree 100% with you. Red tape and bureaucracy all over the place. The CDC refused other tests and awarded the contract to a hand selected 3rd party. The 3rd party made it too complicated by adding additional markers.  Im not saying I want more government, for the government you and i both are forced to have, i just want accountable, honest government, and apparently that is long gone in today's climate.

Ultimately this should serve as a wake up call to people, you alone are your biggest advocate for your personal health and well being.

 

2 hours ago, raulaco said:

Very concerned about the elderly and vulnerable with what's going on here. Hope it all works out in the USA also.

Thank you, we should all have a level of concern.  We will see how this all pans out in the US with all the states having their own procedures, agendas and guidelines being put in to place. The next few weeks will prove to be very important. 

Edited March 13, 2020 by BricksBrotha
typo

[fuzzy_bricks]

Some y'all need to relax about things that aren't in your control.  Here is a meme to cheer everyone up.

Edited March 13, 2020 by fuzzy_bricks

[BricksBrotha]

Just trying to give people something other than the lies being spewed at them every where they go.

 

A true great meme will live forever. 

[Darth_Raichu]

14 minutes ago, BricksBrotha said:

I apologize if my statements come across as emphatic, but please dont confuse with hysteria.  I agree 100% with you. Red tape and bureacracy all over the place. The CDC refused other tests and awarded the contract to a hand selected 3rd party. Again attempting to profit off the people.  Im not saying more government, i just want accountable, honest government, and apparently that is long gone in today's climate.

Appreciate that, even though I was not venting my frustration directly at you

Based on my experience working on government contracts, the preferential selection of 3rd party contractors happens all the time.  It does not matter if the POTUS has an (R) or a (D) behind their name.  The whole system is too big and full of bureaucracy after decades of complicity

[BricksBrotha]

I just read this is what happens when Canadians get hockey taken away from them.

https://www.narcity.com/news/ca/sk/coronavirus-vaccine-made-in-saskatchewan-is-now-in-the-testing-stages

A vaccine moved to animal testing stage.

Also, to bang home another point of our CDC. From someone who works with biological markers on a daily basis, PCR is one of the more basic platforms and very easy to produce on a large scale. We should have had a test available within days.  If anything, this event should serve as a gigantic highlighter, marking all the obvious inadequacies of our government. 

Edited March 13, 2020 by BricksBrotha
typos

[BricksBrotha]

7 minutes ago, Darth_Raichu said:

Appreciate that, even though I was not venting my frustration directly at you

Based on my experience working on government contracts, the preferential selection of 3rd party contractors happens all the time.  It does not matter if the POTUS has an (R) or a (D) behind their name.  The whole system is too big and full of bureaucracy after decades of complicity

There is so much bureaucracy and pandering, its almost sickening to think of.

[Pseudoty]

28 minutes ago, BricksBrotha said:

I just read this is what happens when Canadians get hockey taken away from them.

https://www.narcity.com/news/ca/sk/coronavirus-vaccine-made-in-saskatchewan-is-now-in-the-testing-stages

A vaccine moved to animal testing stage.

Also, to bang home another point of our CDC. From someone who works with biological markers on a daily basis, PCR is one of the more basic platforms and very easy to produce on a large scale. We should have had a test available within days.  If anything, this event should serve as a gigantic highlighter, marking all the obvious inadequacies of our government. 

Since the Fact Check article was published I have read about other issues with testing maybe you can provide more info. Now that the test kits with or without the control vial have been distributed specific labs are still having throughput issues due to:

1. Lack of RNA extracting reagent to run the PCR.  If this is true how hard is it to get a 'jug" of that stuff?

2. The Roche testing machines that are used on the test are slow, outdated and time consuming.

3.  New Roche machines got emergency FDA approval for immediate distribution to "hot" zones but there may not be employees trained on them yet.

 

On another point my facility has around 2 weeks worth of N95 masks left for normal non coronavirus care.   None of the usual distributors have any or any hand sanitizer.  Yesterday we were provided with emergency PPE request forms from the emergency stockpile.  The have 3M masks that were ordered in 2009 but the shelf life is 5 years so they are "expired".  NIOSH and CDC have provided emergency approval to use "expired" masks when treating CoVid-19 patients. 

[KShine]

State of VA has issued a State Of Emergency  and have left it up to the schools to decide whether to stay open.

I could understand the schools being uncertain about what/when to close, but they should be canceling the non essential after school related events (sports/plays/music).

[exciter1]

5 minutes ago, KShine said:

State of VA has issued a State Of Emergency  and have left it up to the schools to decide whether to stay open.

I could understand the schools being uncertain about what/when to close, but they should be canceling the non essential after school related events (sports/plays/music).

The President is about to announce a National Emergency as well.

[BricksBrotha]

32 minutes ago, Pseudoty said:

Since the Fact Check article was published I have read about other issues with testing maybe you can provide more info. Now that the test kits with or without the control vial have been distributed specific labs are still having throughput issues due to:

1. Lack of RNA extracting reagent to run the PCR.  If this is true how hard is it to get a 'jug" of that stuff?         Usually any reagent offered within a company's platform is entirely proprietary. however, working with heeps of these reagents i can tell you they are mostly made up of DiH20, salts, polymers, and usually some specific biological component. These raw goods that make up the reagent formula all would have their own supply chains(other than DIh20 of course). Also, depending on the specificity of the biological component (in this case a new virus) basic supply would be an issue. 

2. The Roche testing machines that are used on the test are slow, outdated and time consuming.  That lies on the developers of the test.  I would have to study the DOE to dermine the best instrument to move forward was, and what that criteria included.  If a single marker method would have been used like all the other countries, they do not require special instruments for results. A gel is produced in minutes that can be read by a trained eye and report accurate blood titers(concentration levels)

3.  New Roche machines got emergency FDA approval for immediate distribution to "hot" zones but there may not be employees trained on them yet. Again, I would like to see the data they used to determine the instruments were effective while also incorporating how user friendly the front end was.  Single detection pcr is so elementary, middle school children perform throughout class rooms all the time. 

We have experienced failed product launches (rushed to market) because leadership has ignored the lead scientists concern's on the new platform and demand the time lines be met on behalf of share holders. Talking tens of millions of dollars lost and work flows disrupted. This would seem like a classic case of 'rushed to market', and all the plethora of problems and issues that follow. some of which are known at the time however without enough time or correct steps taken in the development phase,  those known problems tend to exaggerate the problems unknown during the "rushed" development. (only to be caught by the user.)

 

1,2& 3 could have all been avoided if the 3rd party company had simply chosen a single marker method. This would have eliminated the need for the Roche instruments and the formulas/equations they provide, specific training for health officials and lack of 'reagents' Most major hospitals have the capacity/technology/training to run basic pcr in their labs.  

Like someone else mentioned earlier, they learned PCR in grad school.  Not sure their specific major, but PCR is so basic its being taught at the undergraduate level of most Pre-med oriented undergrad programs.  But I tried to answer your questions with my best specific working ability. Also, they are all very great questions indeed. 

Edited March 13, 2020 by BricksBrotha
typo