Complaint Thread

[Fcbarcelona101]

24 minutes ago, $20 on joe vs dan said:

re this; I believe an awful lot of Russian soldiers died fighting Germany...so I get that some Russian Leaders may have their extreme views but Russia was a key factor in beating Germany.

Overall my view is somewhat opposite.  Not about cancel culture; but more about what's going on w/ Trump of which you cite Trump's situation.

I feel like seeing what Trump was able to do and how he was enabled is closer to the forces that resulted in the atrocities you cite.  I see the current backlash against Trump as more of a "market correction" to use an analogy.

It's no secret that if you spout racist rhetoric you get censored; if you take violent positions you lose your job or get impacted financially.

My sentiment is more of "It's about damn time".  Trump is more poster child of a dictator than victim...thank goodness some folks came to their senses. 

If they are going to do this, I just wish Twitter was as swift banning hardcore dictators as they were acting in this case. 

[exracer327]

42 minutes ago, $20 on joe vs dan said:

re this; I believe an awful lot of Russian soldiers died fighting Germany...so I get that some Russian Leaders may have their extreme views but Russia was a key factor in beating Germany.

Overall my view is somewhat opposite.  Not about cancel culture; but more about what's going on w/ Trump of which you cite Trump's situation.

I feel like seeing what Trump was able to do and how he was enabled is closer to the forces that resulted in the atrocities you cite.  I see the current backlash against Trump as more of a "market correction" to use an analogy.

It's no secret that if you spout racist rhetoric you get censored; if you take violent positions you lose your job or get impacted financially.

My sentiment is more of "It's about damn time".  Trump is more poster child of a dictator than victim...thank goodness some folks came to their senses. 

I agree with you in large extent, but you are also making my point for me.  "Cancel culture" always begins with doing something that most people would agree is good, right, and mutually beneficial for all.  The problem is, it rarely knows when to stop.  And where is room for robust debate without getting cancelled?  This cancelling of debate has been going on for years, well before Trump ever even announced he was running for president.  So right now people are blaming Trump, but I believe Trump is just a symptom of a bigger problem in the USA.

 

Read a portion of George Washington's farewell address as President of the USA Sept. 17, 1796.  I believe his comment is prophetic.

"However [political parties] may now and then answer popular ends, they are likely in the course of time and things, to become potent engines, by which cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people and to usurp for themselves the reins of government, destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion."

Everyone thinks Washington is talking about "those people and their candidate" when really all of us should be taking Washington's words to heart for the sake of our country.  The problem is political parties are turning "[us], the people" into pawns being thrown at one another while political elites stand back and throw words at each other with impunity.  Words should have consequences for everyone.  But what happens when someone proof texts them or us?  

The longer the speech, the more we can find something to point at as inflammatory.  If I say, "We need to fight for what is right," did I just incite a mob to go attack?  Or did I mean we need to oppose someone else's position?  But then how hard should we oppose it?  With violence?  See it becomes a slippery slope and I do not know how we're going to return from this unless we can come together as one people. *sigh* 

I pray for unity in our country, all our leaders (regardless of political party), and for healing.

BTW, Yes, the USSR was a key to defeat Germany.  Of course, Stalin first agreed with Hitler to divide Poland in two to "keep the peace".  Then when fighting did come, Russian troops were sent into battle against Germany and if they tried to return, they were shot (by political order).  

On the German side, a holocaust friend of mine, who survived Auschwitz, told me he saw entire companies of German soldiers marched into gas chambers because they either could no longer or would no longer fight.  The soldiers thought they were going to the showers.  He told me, neither he nor the other Jews said a word to them about where they were really going.

People are pawns which politicians fire at each other's "group" with zero impact on themselves.  Only "We, the People" can stop allowing ourselves to be used as pawns.

[$20 on joe vs dan]

49 minutes ago, exracer327 said:

I agree with you in large extent, but you are also making my point for me.  "Cancel culture" always begins with doing something that most people would agree is good, right, and mutually beneficial for all.  The problem is, it rarely knows when to stop.  And where is room for robust debate without getting cancelled?  This cancelling of debate has been going on for years, well before Trump ever even announced he was running for president.  So right now people are blaming Trump, but I believe Trump is just a symptom of a bigger problem in the USA.

 

Read a portion of George Washington's farewell address as President of the USA Sept. 17, 1796.  I believe his comment is prophetic.

"However [political parties] may now and then answer popular ends, they are likely in the course of time and things, to become potent engines, by which cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people and to usurp for themselves the reins of government, destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion."

Everyone thinks Washington is talking about "those people and their candidate" when really all of us should be taking Washington's words to heart for the sake of our country.  The problem is political parties are turning "[us], the people" into pawns being thrown at one another while political elites stand back and throw words at each other with impunity.  Words should have consequences for everyone.  But what happens when someone proof texts them or us?  

The longer the speech, the more we can find something to point at as inflammatory.  If I say, "We need to fight for what is right," did I just incite a mob to go attack?  Or did I mean we need to oppose someone else's position?  But then how hard should we oppose it?  With violence?  See it becomes a slippery slope and I do not know how we're going to return from this unless we can come together as one people. *sigh* 

I pray for unity in our country, all our leaders (regardless of political party), and for healing.

BTW, Yes, the USSR was a key to defeat Germany.  Of course, Stalin first agreed with Hitler to divide Poland in two to "keep the peace".  Then when fighting did come, Russian troops were sent into battle against Germany and if they tried to return, they were shot (by political order).  

On the German side, a holocaust friend of mine, who survived Auschwitz, told me he saw entire companies of German soldiers marched into gas chambers because they either could no longer or would no longer fight.  The soldiers thought they were going to the showers.  He told me, neither he nor the other Jews said a word to them about where they were really going.

People are pawns which politicians fire at each other's "group" with zero impact on themselves.  Only "We, the People" can stop allowing ourselves to be used as pawns.

Trump is not a victim here.  He has had a whole administration to "debate" but his responses were typically ; I'm right because it's popular or the other side is fake news...rarely did he actually embrace discourse.  What is the other side to do when up against: "fake news/media bias" and no actual discussion?

You can continue on w/ the evils of "cancel culture" because it has a name; but to me, many of the examples sounds like good 'ol consequences for bad behavior.  Debate needs both sides to argue points...if one side refuses then what is the other side to do? 

[Shortbus311]

This is my concern as well - cancel culture and the inability to have real conversations and debate. 
Several Democrats have been planning to impeach Donald Trump since before he took office in 2016.  Sadly, he keeps teeing the ball up for them to do so.  But then it moved from Trump himself by calling to "cancel" anyone who has worked for the Trump admin.  Now people are "cancelling" any contracts with the Trump org - a company that Donald Trump was forced to divest himself of before taking office in 2016.  How long before people begin "cancelling" anyone who works(ed) for the Trump brand all together?  Where does it end?
Every movement to "cancel" people starts with an arguably good motive but ALWAYS ends tragically.
The NAZI political party began as a way to create a better Germany but ended by cancelling everyone except the upper echelon of the NAZI party members.  (By the way, everyone should have seen that coming.  Hitler solidified his position as leader of the NAZI party by having hundreds of NAZI party members assassinated who did not solely support him.  It is called the "Night of Long Knives" but really took place over ONE weekend the end of June, 1934).  Joseph Stalin (Former Soviet Union leader during WWII) is quoted as  complimenting Hitler in his ability to take control.  Soviet Russia admired the NAZIs.  That says something about the former Soviet Union.
The Spanish Inquisition was started by the Catholic Church in Spain to root out heretics but ended tragically by killing thousands of Christians who differed with the leadership of the church in Spain.  Fun history fact; Columbus delayed his departure from Spain by one day.  His actual departure date aligns with the same day Jewish people were expelled from Spain.  Coincidence?  I doubt it.
The Crusades set out to "free the Holy Land" but ended tragically by looting, pillaging, raping, and destroying towns and cities regardless of their "faith".  There was also rampant child trafficking.
Granted these are extreme cases, but they are the ones history has remembered.
Now Alexandria Casio-Cortez via Instagram has admitted that people in our current government are discussing more media control.  Control by who; her?, the "squad"?, democrats?  I highly doubt any republicans are in that conversation, let alone true independents or people from any other political background.  I found this article which has her full (1+ hour) video imbedded so you can see it for yourself.  ttps://www.foxnews.com/politics/dave-rubin-slams-aoc-commission-media. 
The Golden Rule says, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."  The vengeful of our world have their own version, "As you have done to me, I will now do to you," and that really scares me.  It takes a lot of grace (undeserved forgiveness) to NOT seek retribution.
You can claim I'm being an alarmist, but "those who are ignorant of history are destined to repeat it" (unknown author). 
Thank you for letting me get this off my chest.  Now, back to your regularly scheduled complaint thread. 

Lol, you are my least favorite person today. I listened through most of that hour + drivel to get to her part about truth in social media.

She wants to form an investigatory committee for truth in social media and getting rid of "disinformation". My main concern is who decides what is truth and what isn't? Again, my stance would be that freedom of speech is never put down as long as it does not directly call for violence.

Btw, anyone who wants to hear AOC talk about specifically this can skip ahead to about the 53 minute mark on her Instagram post haha.

[Phil B]

Couple of random points to add to the discussion:

1. Trump’s personal account got banned, but not after he got many many many second chances ... there were a lot of ToS violations. Let’s not ignore that when discussion his ‘cancellation’.
2. One of the first things Trump did was cancel press appearances, allegedly because of ‘fake news’. He only spoke to Fox. I hope and expect that Biden will pick up where things were left with Obama and all presidents before him - talk to both sides of the press to create openness and allow for dialogue.
3. Some folks are mentioning Incitement to Violence on behalf of Kamala Harris and Nancy Pelosi during the BLM days this summer. My research on this has not turned up anything (Calling for “defunding the police” or reviewing police protocols or “making your voice heard” don’t fall in Riot territory IMO). Can someone point me to a reputable source for these comments?

[KvHulk]

Poor trump being bullied and silenced unfairly!

[elmaslıefendi]

If Tech CEOs can censor the President of the USA, go figure who holds the power in this world. And on top of that it happens in the one nation that supposedly values free speech more than anything else.

And the hatred of the media is unbelievable... For what? Not being a globalist Soros slave? 

Trump was still the best president since Kennedy, hate on me for that statement, I don't care what anyone says, he is a man outside of the criminal establishment, that's a positive. I respect him for what he has achieved internationally, he respected other states' national sovereignty instead of purposely destroying their economy or straight up invading them. You can argue about his temperament & his personality, but that should not be the main topic of discussion, although it seems that most anti-Trump people hate him mainly for these reasons. 

I'm not even American, but I hate to see him go. Biden will apply the same cruel politics internationally as Obama & Bush did before him... 

[oneknightr]

2 minutes ago, elmaslıefendi said:

If Tech CEOs can censor the President of the USA, go figure who holds the power in this world. And on top of that it happens in the one nation that supposedly values free speech more than anything else.

Trump isn't silenced. He has a platform available to him 24/7, the White House press room.

[KvHulk]

Does no one understand the First Amendment?
; an amendment to the U.S. Constitution, ratified in 1791 as part of the Bill of Rights, prohibiting Congress from interfering with freedom of religion, speech, assembly, or petition.

Although the First Amendment applies only to state actors, there is a common misconception that it prohibits anyone from limiting free speech, including private, non-governmental entities.
; Because they are private companies, Twitter, Facebook and other social media can limit speech on their platforms.

No shirt? No shoes? No service!

Edited January 14, 2021 by KvHulk

[carini26]

4 minutes ago, oneknightr said:

Trump isn't silenced. He has a platform available to him 24/7, the White House press room.

It was a lot easier to just type his thoughts to the world during his 5am dump.  

[lazuli16]

8 minutes ago, KvHulk said:

No shirt? No shoes? No Mask? No service!

I updated it for you. 

[KvHulk]

On to a real complaint not rooted in... whatever.

Yesterday Walmart started cancelling orders for TVC Incinerator Troopers that were pre-ordered months ago.

Mysteriously after the cancellations Walmart relisted the figure for purchase for.... $34.99!

It lasted all night and as soon as it did sell out, this morning, The price was corrected to $12.99.

Walmart no longer price matches themselves so if your ordered them at the higher price they wont lower the price to $12.99 now.

 

Edited January 14, 2021 by KvHulk

[exciter1]

13 minutes ago, KvHulk said:

On to a real complaint not rooted in... whatever.

Yesterday Walmart started cancelling orders for TVC Incinerator Troopers that were pre-ordered months ago.

Mysteriously after the cancellations Walmart relisted the figure for purchase for.... $34.99!

It lasted all night and as soon as it did sell out, this morning, The price was corrected to $12.99.

Walmart no longer price matches themselves so if your ordered them at the higher price they wont lower the price to $12.99 now.

 

Call them and give them the order number for the canceled troopers.  They'll price adjust your new order.

[Alpinemaps]

1 hour ago, KvHulk said:

Poor trump being bullied and silenced unfairly!

If the shoe was on the other foot, and it was Biden that was being silenced by big tech, would you still feel the same way?  I would.  I view this as being a societal issue, and not the issue with the name or personality.

What I don't like is that these companies that have an effective monopoly on a major form of communication have the power to silence a world leader.

56 minutes ago, KvHulk said:

Does no one understand the First Amendment?
; an amendment to the U.S. Constitution, ratified in 1791 as part of the Bill of Rights, prohibiting Congress from interfering with freedom of religion, speech, assembly, or petition.

Although the First Amendment applies only to state actors, there is a common misconception that it prohibits anyone from limiting free speech, including private, non-governmental entities.
; Because they are private companies, Twitter, Facebook and other social media can limit speech on their platforms.

No shirt? No shoes? No service!

We're starting to talk ourselves into circles, so maybe it's time to stop.  I did address this yesterday, and I don't think anyone in this thread is making the argument that Trump's First Amendment rights are being violated.

1 hour ago, Phil B said:

Couple of random points to add to the discussion:

1. Trump’s personal account got banned, but not after he got many many many second chances ... there were a lot of ToS violations. Let’s not ignore that when discussion his ‘cancellation’.
2. One of the first things Trump did was cancel press appearances, allegedly because of ‘fake news’. He only spoke to Fox. I hope and expect that Biden will pick up where things were left with Obama and all presidents before him - talk to both sides of the press to create openness and allow for dialogue.
3. Some folks are mentioning Incitement to Violence on behalf of Kamala Harris and Nancy Pelosi during the BLM days this summer. My research on this has not turned up anything (Calling for “defunding the police” or reviewing police protocols or “making your voice heard” don’t fall in Riot territory IMO). Can someone point me to a reputable source for these comments?

I'm going to do a little "whataboutism," which everyone hates.  But this isn't to say "they did it, so it's okay if my guy did it;" it's to call out the hypocrisy of both sides, and say that it's wrong on both sides.

Not holding press conferences for long stretches is not unique to Trump.  Biden was criticized this summer for going almost 90 days without holding a press conference.  Hillary Clinton was criticized for not holding a press conference for over 250 days.  The point here is that all of these politicians go a long time without holding true press conferences.  That's not really a big deal.

Obama had a pretty contentious relationship with FOX News, probably no more or less contentious than Trump with CNN (https://www.factcheck.org/2018/09/obama-fox-news-and-the-free-press/).  He labeled FOX illegitimate, was willing to exclude FOX News form interviews, and even called them destructive.

I do not mention this as whataboutism, but to illustrate that BOTH sides do this.  It does NOT make it right.  I want to illustrate that this is not just the purvey of one side or the other.

As for the Incitement to Violence by Democratic leadership over the summer - I saw things that suggested that at the time.  But just like Phil, trying to research it now, I could not find anything that can really back that up.  Maybe some out of context tweets, but nothing that would actually suggest that it truly happened that way.

 

[Ed Mack]

What scares me is how people are being "cancelled."  Their lives...Their jobs...Their businesses...Their identities...Their beliefs...Their emotional well being.  If it's not the virus wreaking havoc, then it's the government closing businesses and schools and destroying lives and someone's lifetime work.  Social media and TV media is all about control and their narratives.  I guess the past year has made me realize we have very little control of our lives and that's hard for me and many others to deal with.  

[Mathew]

Research the World Economic Forum and “The Great Reset”. Scary stuff.

 

Edited January 14, 2021 by Mathew

[$20 on joe vs dan]

1 hour ago, Alpinemaps said:

 

What I don't like is that these companies that have an effective monopoly on a major form of communication have the power to silence a world leader.

 

No one is silencing a world leader. If Trump wanted to tell the world something he can use the tools of the office like every President before him.

You gotta ask yourself why is Twitter so much more important to him?  I will surmise that the difference: minimum accountability and spontaneity, is why and then you gotta ask yourself...should a world leader use a tool like that so much?

I also get that some here are conveying the Matrix Argument.  That what we thought was the "good 'ol days" of which we are comparing the current times ...was an illusion that Trump helped to shatter...and maybe there's some truth to that.

I also acknowledge the philosophical viewpoint that the ends does not justify the means. I generally hold this belief.  But just like Trump pushing the envelope has caused the political and legal norms to be re-evaluated and changes...maybe this action by Tech was also an over-reach that can now be addressed.  So in both cases, the extreme action(s) result in positive change...so we need to further define "then ends".

It gets better in the end..and if it's not better...it's not the end😁

my other favorite: If you're going through hell...don't stop!

 

 

[elmaslıefendi]

1 hour ago, Mathew said:

Research the World Economic Forum and “The Great Reset”. Scary stuff.

 

Most people discredited this & many other real issues as "conspiracy theories" in the past. 

Well... Now world leaders are openly speaking about these "theories" & they're planning them in front of our own eyes. Suddenly a "whack internet idea of a bunch of idiots" has become reality. A conspiracy that is too obvious, isn't a conspiracy anymore, it's a bet on how stupid people can be, failing to realize what's coming. At this point I feel like it's a way of them to make fun of us, to show how little power we actually possess. And the ones that can make a serious impact by informing the public & fighting this system simply get censored. 2020 was the year of censoring on YouTube, which is not a surprise to me.

It's dictatorial socialist fascism for the wealthy & powerful. It's like playing Monopoly while you own the board, the figures, the properties, the houses and the rigged dice. 

Of course you can laugh this all off & continue to live in your bubble, but you can't stop what's coming. 

[$20 on joe vs dan]

13 minutes ago, elmaslıefendi said:

Most people discredited this & many other real issues as "conspiracy theories" in the past. 

Well... Now world leaders are openly speaking about these "theories" & they're planning them in front of our own eyes. Suddenly a "whack internet idea of a bunch of idiots" has become reality. A conspiracy that is too obvious, isn't a conspiracy anymore, it's a bet on how stupid people can be, failing to realize what's coming. At this point I feel like it's a way of them to make fun of us, to show how little power we actually possess. And the ones that can make a serious impact by informing the public & fighting this system simply get censored. 2020 was the year of censoring on YouTube, which is not a surprise to me.

It's dictatorial socialist fascism for the wealthy & powerful. It's like playing Monopoly while you own the board, the figures, the properties, the houses and the rigged dice. 

Of course you can laugh this all off & continue to live in your bubble, but you can't stop what's coming. 

the biggest thing that's wrong with the game monopoly: everyone starts off with the same cash and plays by the same rules.

The way it is:

Player 1: Banker can "borrow" any amount as needed....pay back is optional or after the "game ends"

PLayer 2: starts off in jail and goes back whenever she/she doesn't roll doubles

PLayer 3: Doesn't have to use the dice; can dictate what his/her next move will be

PLayer 4: can choose use whatever cards on the Community Chest and Chance as he/she sees fit

Remaining Players: plays by the "rules"

 

 

[KShine]

I remember in the early days, when pc was just a joke, and we assumed that the people who preached it were just pretending (and knew what was actually true).

Well they weren't.

[Alpinemaps]

2 hours ago, $20 on joe vs dan said:

No one is silencing a world leader. If Trump wanted to tell the world something he can use the tools of the office like every President before him.

You gotta ask yourself why is Twitter so much more important to him?  I will surmise that the difference: minimum accountability and spontaneity, is why and then you gotta ask yourself...should a world leader use a tool like that so much?

Trump isn't the lone world leader to use Twitter, and that's why I don't agree with that argument.  I know people hate the "what ifs" but, what if this had happened prior to the election, and to Biden?  It just as easily could have happened.  And that would not have been fair.

As I mentioned previously, the standards should be a little different for elected officials.  Like or hate what they say, the public should be able to hear their voice.  And, there are consequences for their bad behavior.  It may have motivated a lot of people to vote for him in 2016, but I'm sure it hasn't helped him over the last 4 years.  And those consequences are moving boxes showing up at the White House yesterday.

Angela Merkel and Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador have both come out against it.

These may be private (actually public) companies, but they are a communication tool.  Just like all the major networks and cable networks.  And those are regulated.  Of course, in times past, they had to give equal time to all.  Not so much anymore.

[Shortbus311]

2. One of the first things Trump did was cancel press appearances, allegedly because of ‘fake news’. He only spoke to Fox. I hope and expect that Biden will pick up where things were left with Obama and all presidents before him - talk to both sides of the press to create openness and allow for dialogue.

Comparing Trump to Obama as far as press relations go is not something you would ever want to do if you are a Democrat.

Obama had quite possibly the worst press relations in the history of the presidency, and that includes Trump.

1. Obama administration denied more freedom of information act requests than any other president in history.
2. Obama administration took more reporters and news sources to court than any other president, in an effort to force reporters to reveal their sources so whistle-blowers could be punished.
3. Obama administration also consistently attacked Fox news. Granted, he didn't attack them as much as Trump went after CNN, but he did attack them. Honestly though, if I were president and a news agency said for 2-3 years that I was colluding with Russia and I wasn't... I would call them "fake news" every chance I got too.

[TANV]

Hey, question. Is there an "Ignore Post" function? That'd be really handy right now. Or you know, "Ignore Whole Pages" button?

I'm asking for a friend. Honest.

Not fake news at all.

Edited January 15, 2021 by TANV
Missing period.

[stackables]

8 minutes ago, TANV said:

Hey, question. Is there an "Ignore Post" function? That'd be really handy right now. Or you know, "Ignore Whole Pages" button?

I'm asking for a friend. Honest.

Not fake news at all.

Uh...just unsubscribe to the thread.

[TANV]

14 minutes ago, stackables said:

Uh...just unsubscribe to the thread.

OOOH! Thanks!