Mos_Eisley Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 Exactly. BrickLink lists sets like this as new-complete or new-incomplete. Either way, the product is still new. BrickLink has pretty much been the site for buying and selling LEGO stuff, so I'm not sure why their qualifications wouldn't be acceptable for all sites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eightbrick Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 How exactly is it misleading when the sellers tell potential buyers, in both the title AND description, what is and isn't included? And, josh said "part out" - that encompasses a great many things when it comes to Lego, including most definitely Bricklink sellers (like me) who list our removed-from-sets parts as "new". I don't know that's just how I understood his comment. Didn't know this was such a touchy issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legoman12323123 Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 So anyone who sells "new" parts on Bricklink is a douchetard, I take it? If i buy a funhouse part it out and place in plastic baggies .. I dont see anything wrong with selling it as (NEW) It would be stupid to list it as used when its clearly in brand new shape never played with ect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshTX Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 If i buy a funhouse part it out and place in plastic baggies .. I dont see anything wrong with selling it as (NEW) It would be stupid to list it as used when its clearly in brand new shape never played with ect. The second you popped the seals, it isn't new anymore...that's my take on it. it was handled by someone other than Lego, in the aftermarket. It's no longer new at that point, in my opinion. Like others have said it's a pretty touchy issue. I understand the bricklink system and why people list the way they do there, especially due to the volume of loose pieces. There is a difference between buying a castle wall from a 1990's lego set that's yellowing and buying a vampyre castle wall from a freshly opened set. In my opinion, they are both still used, but to a different degree. In comic book grading, no comic that was handled by someone's bare hands would be considered mint anymore. But then again, it wouldn't be considered "fair" or "poor" either, if they touched it once and put it directly into a sleeve or whatever. Maybe Bricklink needs a more robust system, I guess. On Ebay, I stand by my opinion that opened items should never be listed as new, and I'll never sell something with the seals "popped" as new. I especially wouldn't sell a set that's missing pieces as new, even if I exclaimed it was missing the pieces. It may not be deceptive if they explain themselves, but why list it as new then? It mucks up the listing system as previously mentioned - you go to search for a new item and you end up with a bunch of opened, parted-out Uruk-Hai walls that people still want to claim as new after they removed half the contents. Doesn't feel new to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Mack Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 I cleared up some of the listings. There were a few bad ones for sure in there. The numbers are no where as drastic as before, but still down.http://www.brickpicker.com/bpms/set.cfm?set=6857-1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doofy McGee Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 SInce I started investing in Lego just over a year ago, I have always heavily pushed the Funhouse as one of the great investment sets out there. We are talking about a $40 set that has $50 worth of minifigs in it. And all this while it is still available. You don't find many sets that can make a claim like that. Although lots of us are buying up this set in larger quantities, there will always more people buying than there will selling. People seem to forget this fact. Once a set retires, it becomes a seller's market before too terribly long. I stand by my original statement...the Funhouse is a great investment set. Don't miss out on it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grackleflint Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 The second you popped the seals, it isn't new anymore...that's my take on it. it was handled by someone other than Lego, in the aftermarket. It's no longer new at that point, in my opinion. Like others have said it's a pretty touchy issue. On Ebay, I stand by my opinion that opened items should never be listed as new, and I'll never sell something with the seals "popped" as new. I especially wouldn't sell a set that's missing pieces as new, even if I exclaimed it was missing the pieces. It may not be deceptive if they explain themselves, but why list it as new then? It mucks up the listing system as previously mentioned - you go to search for a new item and you end up with a bunch of opened, parted-out Uruk-Hai walls that people still want to claim as new after they removed half the contents. Doesn't feel new to me. Just my $0.02.. If you are selling on eBay, they specifically state here: http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/item-condition.html#collectibles It's important that you specify the condition accurately in order to avoid violating our selling practices policy. Find out more about describing an item's condition. Collectibles, Crafts, Dolls & Bears, Pet Supplies, Toys & Hobbies Condition Description New A brand-new, unused, unopened, undamaged item (including handmade items). See the seller's listing for full details. Used An item that has been used previously. See the seller's listing for full details and description of any imperfections. That definition technically does not allow you to list a parted-out set as NEW. If you list a parted-out set as NEW and someone buys it thinking that it is complete (regardless of whatever you enter into the item description), the buyer can file a not-as-described claim and probably get their money back and eBay does not need a lot of convincing to side with a buyer. People who do this are taking a risk...whether or not they think it is fair and/or reasonable doesn't matter, eBay will decide for you if there is an issue. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mos_Eisley Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 Just my $0.02.. If you are selling on eBay, they specifically state here: http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/item-condition.html#collectibles It's important that you specify the condition accurately in order to avoid violating our selling practices policy. Find out more about describing an item's condition. Collectibles, Crafts, Dolls & Bears, Pet Supplies, Toys & Hobbies Condition Description New A brand-new, unused, unopened, undamaged item (including handmade items). See the seller's listing for full details. Used An item that has been used previously. See the seller's listing for full details and description of any imperfections. That definition technically does not allow you to list a parted-out set as NEW. If you list a parted-out set as NEW and someone buys it thinking that it is complete (regardless of whatever you enter into the item description), the buyer can file a not-as-described claim and probably get their money back and eBay does not need a lot of convincing to side with a buyer. People who do this are taking a risk...whether or not they think it is fair and/or reasonable doesn't matter, eBay will decide for you if there is an issue. This is simply not true. As long as you have a properly written description, you're fine and ebay will side with the seller. The characteristics of being new are a list of qualities that can qualify something as being new. All of them don't have to be true for an item to be new. A handmade item can be new, but it is not unopened. We can go round and round forever, and people will always disagree on this. In my opinion, when we're talking about LEGO elements, you are letting people know whether those pieces have been used or not when listing their condition. That gives two options - new or used. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOrcKing Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 If a part is in great to mint condition with no dings, scratches, faded color, ecetera, then it is new. If there are some bruises, marks, or similar, then it is used. You can take parts out of a brand new set, sort and catalogue them, and then sell as new because you are not lying. Selling a set without the minifigures can be considered as brand new but not sealed since that was only thing broken here. Even if the person built a set once for the images used on the listing, it could still be considered new to a degree so long as the parts are in good condition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grackleflint Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 This is simply not true. As long as you have a properly written description, you're fine and ebay will side with the seller. How is this "simply" not true? Do you have inside knowledge of eBay's seller protection decisions about this issue? Have you sold parted out sets as NEW, had a buyer file a SNAD claim and had eBay side with you? The main point is that eBay decides when someone has an issue and their current bias is to favor the buyer. Whatever we believe is ultimately irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coneil21 Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 To continue along off-topic, what do you do about brand new sets you order and upon delivery the seals are popped just from loss of stickiness or what have you? I just received a Tower Bridge in that condition from Ebay and I have an an Epic Dragon Battle with four seals that won't stick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justafrog Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 How is this "simply" not true? Do you have inside knowledge of eBay's seller protection decisions about this issue? Have you sold parted out sets as NEW, had a buyer file a SNAD claim and had eBay side with you? The main point is that eBay decides when someone has an issue and their current bias is to favor the buyer. Whatever we believe is ultimately irrelevant. It's also pretty unimportant - if a buyer has an issue with something I sell, I apologize and tell them to return it for a full refund, including return shipping. Easy peasy, and eBay doesn't hold it against me. I have almost no returns because most buyers can read clear-cut descriptions and I can write them. I'm not trying to trick anyone about what they're getting, so I don't get unhappy customers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justafrog Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 To continue along off-topic, what do you do about brand new sets you order and upon delivery the seals are popped just from loss of stickiness or what have you? I just received a Tower Bridge in that condition from Ebay and I have an an Epic Dragon Battle with four seals that won't stick. Take the opportunity to inspect them for completeness, and when you list them, list them as new. In the description and possibly also the title, make a note that the seals are broken but you have verified that the item is complete and in brand new condition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mos_Eisley Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 How is this "simply" not true? Do you have inside knowledge of eBay's seller protection decisions about this issue? Have you sold parted out sets as NEW, had a buyer file a SNAD claim and had eBay side with you? The main point is that eBay decides when someone has an issue and their current bias is to favor the buyer. Whatever we believe is ultimately irrelevant. Of course I have experience with this, otherwise I wouldn't be making claims about how it's going to go. I have had several claims with this exact issue and I won every one as a seller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coneil21 Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 Take the opportunity to inspect them for completeness, and when you list them, list them as new. In the description and possibly also the title, make a note that the seals are broken but you have verified that the item is complete and in brand new condition. Aha! So you are advocating the common sense route Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justafrog Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 Oh! I see, I misunderstood the full question. That I'll leave to the more investment-savvy, but I would think that "perfect box" would be better than "imperfect box" every day if you have the choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshTX Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 To continue along off-topic, what do you do about brand new sets you order and upon delivery the seals are popped just from loss of stickiness or what have you? I just received a Tower Bridge in that condition from Ebay and I have an an Epic Dragon Battle with four seals that won't stick. But do you really know? If the seals are popped, was it from loss of stickiness or did someone expertly syphon out some contents? I think that's the question I'd be asking myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diabolos80 Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 I don't know about you guys, but I've found plenty of dinged and scratched pieces, straight out of brand new sealed bags. Slopes are the worst for scratches, and the corners of 1x4 or 1x6 bricks can get dented fairly easily. I guess my point is even new Lego elements can have signs of wear just from being rattled around during shipping. My main concerns with used parts are bite marks and discoloration. Anything short of those, or an outright gouge, and it's new to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOrcKing Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 I don't know about you guys, but I've found plenty of dinged and scratched pieces, straight out of brand new sealed bags. Slopes are the worst for scratches, and the corners of 1x4 or 1x6 bricks can get dented fairly easily. I guess my point is even new Lego elements can have signs of wear just from being rattled around during shipping. My main concerns with used parts are bite marks and discoloration. Anything short of those, or an outright gouge, and it's new to me.This was another point I was thinking about right before you posted. Anyone have an idea of just how much parts rattle and roll around in brand new sets? A single Lego set can make a whole lot of rounds before finally being opened by that one lucky customer who will actually build it but during its travels until then, bags inside the box slide back and forth within their cardboard container knocking each other around. I have personally opened brand new sets with a few scratched and sometimes dented parts yet despite all that these are still new considering.Anyway, I think we covered this off-topic discussion long enough.Time to move on.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diabolos80 Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 SInce I started investing in Lego just over a year ago, I have always heavily pushed the Funhouse as one of the great investment sets out there. We are talking about a $40 set that has $50 worth of minifigs in it. And all this while it is still available. You don't find many sets that can make a claim like that. Although lots of us are buying up this set in larger quantities, there will always more people buying than there will selling. People seem to forget this fact. Once a set retires, it becomes a seller's market before too terribly long. I stand by my original statement...the Funhouse is a great investment set. Don't miss out on it. Great post. The minifigures in this set are pure quality. Probably these are my favorites for all these characters, especially Joker. They're all supercool. And they come with a wonderful playground. This is a set I own but have not opened. I'm saving it, to build it with my son on his birthday. Between now and then I'll stock up when it suits my budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emazers Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 Why would anybody think the Funhouse would be selling way over the $40 retail price all the time, take the Jabba's palace, Epic battle, Helms Deep, Etc you can get these for $20 below retail and there are lots of other sets that we can get cheap. Thats why we have to wait til the sets retire and then the wait begins for the prices to rise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoNotInsertIntoMouth Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 Why would anybody think the Funhouse would be selling way over the $40 retail price all the time, take the Jabba's palace, Epic battle, Helms Deep, Etc you can get these for $20 below retail and there are lots of other sets that we can get cheap. Thats why we have to wait til the sets retire and then the wait begins for the prices to rise. How many did you say you had, like 60? I trust Ed - so everyone get 60. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emazers Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 52, and got alot the first time tru had the buy 2 get one free and they had the $39.99 price on the site for a few hours, so for $30 - $35 a piece I paid for them is a great price, and everybody should make sure they don't wait til the last minute to load up on the 6860 Batcave, it seems like alot of people already have quite a few. Its not as good as the first one, but I am pretty sure more people will be spending $200 for the 6860 instead of $400-$500 for the original one. Ed 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshTX Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 This was another point I was thinking about right before you posted. Anyone have an idea of just how much parts rattle and roll around in brand new sets? A single Lego set can make a whole lot of rounds before finally being opened by that one lucky customer who will actually build it but during its travels until then, bags inside the box slide back and forth within their cardboard container knocking each other around. I have personally opened brand new sets with a few scratched and sometimes dented parts yet despite all that these are still new considering. Anyway, I think we covered this off-topic discussion long enough. Time to move on.... Hey TOK...I know you stated "move on", but I want to talk about this one more time...I feel it's relevant and I'm willing to take the punishment warning/suspension if you see fit. But I had 4 miles of a hot Texas' night run to think about it. I see there are alot of different perspectives about what is regarded as "new", some I hadn't even thought of. I want to retract and apologize for the "douchetard" comment. Probably should've been worded better, like "those who list incomplete sets as new without notification are douchetards" or something. Bottom line is that as much as I like to play around on this forum, I'm know better than to make blanket insult comments. Some pretty intelligent and good people probably felt affected, and insults like that aren't in good taste. justafrog - I interpreted your comments as something to the effect of "I'm going to list my opened stuff as new because everyone else does". I could be wrong though. I see your point from a business aspect, but I also feel like you saw the validity in what I stated...for me it isn't ethically ok to act a certain way or do something because everyone else gets away with it or because it's become an industry standard.That's just me. But I respect your opinion...I like the contributions you make here and always enjoy reading your posts. Agreeing to disagree is a part of life in almost everything that could be considered so subjectively. I'm the one who tried to say (in a roundabout way) there was only one way, so I'm the jackass here. Mos Eisley - I don't often agree with you, but again, your posts are always intelligently written and you seem to have very little sympathy for foolishness. Although it can come off as rude to some, I've always tried to admire that quality for the no-nonsense approach it offers. Anyway, I'm done venting and done talking about it. Thanks for reading my "cool story". 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eightbrick Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 How many did you say you had, like 60? I trust Ed - so everyone get 60. LOL that's why the price went down... emazers started selling off his massive inventory! Just kidding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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