Euro 2016

[Frank Brickowski]

50 minutes ago, gregpj said:

I think plenty of players try that trick but you only hear about the successful ones (because it does look good) or the extreme fails when it's failure causes a goal.

Having played soccer, there is absolutely a direction you can give the ball with the direction you swing your leg and the angle of your foot. With practice you can become fairly accurate but there is always a deviation due to factors out of your control such as slipping, wind (when outside), position of opponents causing you to alter your shot and getting a consistent position next to the ball is hard. But you can give it direction. Also, some players have better technique than others - Ronaldo has an amazingly good kick. He really ought to use it more often. Others players like Messi rely more on finesse and rightly so.. but Ronaldo, he should hammer the ball every chance he gets.

Ice hockey is different - if a player uses the same curve on a stick through their career (and they do), the puck will tend to leave the stick the same way each time. Good hand eye coordination will ensure the puck is in the same place. Also, pointing your stick towards the intended target tends to improve your accuracy since it directs the puck there. Add those together and practice will ensure consistency.

I agree that there are some (not many and much fewer compared to other sports) football players I would attribute real ability in terms of what football in fact requires if played professionally - while there are imo way too many players (also so-called "stars") who only have SOME kind of ability, but which is insufficient regarding what you should be able to do as a pro (compared to other sports) to make your actions look like real proficiency (and not so much like 50 % coincidence). Ronaldo and Messi are certainly those with real abilities, while Ronaldo sometimes seems to struggle when not surrounded by a fair amount of other highest-quality players (see his performance in the national team vs. club). Still, while Ronaldo is being regarded a free-kick specialist (his pre-kick routine showing that he is of that opinion, too), his statictics don't live up to the hype. He had a stretch where he did not score a free-kick goal out of more than 50 free-kicks and his quota over the years should be somewhere around 6-8 %. That's not really impressive efficiency-wise. About his quota concerning goals out of the game, I don't know. I think he scores so many goals because he already shoots so often. You'd say he shoots too seldom? I think he complains very much all the time and maybe he should stop smiling after missing the goal... apart from being exceptionally good. However, I don't like him, he's a big showboat. I like it more when a player is really good but remains modest. Just like Messi or Stephen Curry (in the NBA). To me that is an expression of real class, while bragging is always easy when you're at the top.

One fundamental issue for my problems with football is that I don't like it if people are being attributed and getting attention for abilities they don't really have. That is the case with a lot of football players. It's the same thing with people who cannot sing but become superstars in music anyway. Or actors who cannot act but are being paid $30 million per movie. In the end it comes down to my lack of understanding why somebody incompetent gets a lot of screentime (instead of TV stations showing something more substantial). And in Germany you are being totally flooded with anything football - so I am being confronted with this evey day and keep asking myself why it could not have been Basketball or American Football, where there are spectacular things happening in virtually every game - unlike a well-known 0:0 after 90 minutes in football.

Edited June 15, 2016 by Frank Brickowski

[Will 4]

Ronaldo is psychically changed from what he was if you look his acceleration and burst of pace are a lot slower now as opposed to a few years ago also some of that work is key for the team such as getting Rooney sent off a few years ago against England getting that booking out of a referee can change how a defender plays it is also key now to surround referees and bully them into decisions whilst commentator deride it this is a key element to the game today. Ronaldo is changing his style of play to be a bully more and rely on physicality rather than pace and skill. Your comment on free kicks is interesting but people only remember the good ones not the misses or wall shots I feel football could learn from the American version and vary plays more with snapshots and more movement rather than standing around.

The showboating is key to his income as being in the news for him is key for sponsorship and endorsement deals look at Vardy or Balotelli most main men show off.

Singer and actors rely on looks and a pathetic backstory and social media as auto tune works magic nowadays.

I think if look at the world of football else there are good stories everywhere.

[Bold-Arrow]

Some good games tomorrow and Copa's knockout stage starts as well . Great day to leave work early . 

[Frank Brickowski]

18 hours ago, Will 4 said:

Ronaldo is psychically changed from what he was if you look his acceleration and burst of pace are a lot slower now as opposed to a few years ago also some of that work is key for the team such as getting Rooney sent off a few years ago against England getting that booking out of a referee can change how a defender plays it is also key now to surround referees and bully them into decisions whilst commentator deride it this is a key element to the game today. Ronaldo is changing his style of play to be a bully more and rely on physicality rather than pace and skill. Your comment on free kicks is interesting but people only remember the good ones not the misses or wall shots I feel football could learn from the American version and vary plays more with snapshots and more movement rather than standing around.

The showboating is key to his income as being in the news for him is key for sponsorship and endorsement deals look at Vardy or Balotelli most main men show off.

Singer and actors rely on looks and a pathetic backstory and social media as auto tune works magic nowadays.

I think if look at the world of football else there are good stories everywhere.

Thanks for your interesting pov on Ronaldo!

Concerning his free-kick abilities I have found some specific numbers now:
- In his European and World Championships appearances his quota is 0 goals out of 34 free-kicks
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/row-zed/full-horror-cristiano-ronaldos-free-8195224
- As of October 2015 he had scored 2 goals from his last 88 free-kick attempts (must relate to games overall)
http://www.goal.com/en/news/1716/champions-league/2015/10/21/16559902/the-embarrassing-stat-that-suggests-its-time-ronaldo-gives
- I've also found this suggesting a free-kick goal rate of below 5 % for 2014/15 league games:

...look at Messi's ratio by the way, too... and now remember how commentators always speak of "dangerous free-kicks" - this is just fooling people into believing in football fairy tales. I mean the whole table doesn't really suggest any danger from free-kicks at all. The same goes for goals after corners, from my experience, where the rate is even lower. Still, fans always applaud and hope for something, when their teams gets to kick a corner - why? Stats show differently.

 

[gregpj]

5 minutes ago, Frank Brickowski said:

Thanks for your interesting pov on Ronaldo!

Concerning his free-kick abilities I have found some specific numbers now:
- In his European and World Championships appearances his quota is 0 goals out of 34 free-kicks
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/row-zed/full-horror-cristiano-ronaldos-free-8195224
- As of October 2015 he had scored 2 goals from his last 88 free-kick attempts (must relate to games overall)
http://www.goal.com/en/news/1716/champions-league/2015/10/21/16559902/the-embarrassing-stat-that-suggests-its-time-ronaldo-gives
- I've also found this suggesting a free-kick goal rate of below 5 % for 2014/15 league games:

 

...look at Messi's ratio by the way, too... and now remember how commentators always speak of "dangerous free-kicks" - this is just fooling people into believing in football fairy tales. I mean the whole table doesn't really suggest any danger from free-kicks at all. The same goes for goals after corners, from my experience, where the rate is even lower. Still, fans always applaud and hope for something, when their teams gets to kick a corner - why? Stats show differently.

 

Free kicks are dangerous... much more dangerous when compared to a player who can be challenged by a defender, but as usual statistics don't tell the whole story.

- Where were the free kicks taken? I'll bet the ones from 20m are far more effective than from 40m.
- What about follow up chances? How many free kicks where a goal was not scored resulted in:
     - the goalie having to make an exceptional save?
     - a follow up chance by the kicking team's other forwards?

Stats without the right context are useless. My assertion is that Ronaldo has very good technique and even if his success rate is low, it causes more players to assemble in the blocking line during his kicks thereby freeing up his teammates to potentially score on deflections, rebounds, etc. Pure speculation, I admit, but I am just trying to think beyond a few meaningless numbers.

Stats without context are like me saying I'm 5 feet 9 inches tall and you trying to determine if that makes me healthy or not.
 

[Frank Brickowski]

1 minute ago, gregpj said:

Free kicks are dangerous... much more dangerous when compared to a player who can be challenged by a defender, but as usual statistics don't tell the whole story.

- Where were the free kicks taken? I'll bet the ones from 20m are far more effective than from 40m.
- What about follow up chances? How many free kicks where a goal was not scored resulted in:
     - the goalie having to make an exceptional save?
     - a follow up chance by the kicking team's other forwards?

Stats without the right context are useless. My assertion is that Ronaldo has very good technique and even if his success rate is low, it causes more players to assemble in the blocking line during his kicks thereby freeing up his teammates to potentially score on deflections, rebounds, etc. Pure speculation, I admit, but I am just trying to think beyond a few meaningless numbers.

Stats without context are like me saying I'm 5 feet 9 inches tall and you trying to determine if that makes me healthy or not.
 

I get your point. Still, I think the original question was if Ronaldo is a free-kick specialist. Stats say he is not, but he is constantly regarded as one by the fans. I'm just trying to get some realistic views involved here into the discussion about players' abilitites. As I said before there are so many legends and myths in football that overshadow what has really happened. Ronaldo for instance will always be rememberes as an exceptionally precise and dangerous free-kicker - which he is not and never was. But if you come along and tell that in a discussion, everyone around will call you an idiot "because everybody knows how good a free-kicker Ronaldo was"...

[gregpj]

12 minutes ago, Frank Brickowski said:

I get your point. Still, I think the original question was if Ronaldo is a free-kick specialist. Stats say he is not, but he is constantly regarded as one by the fans. I'm just trying to get some realistic views involved here into the discussion about players' abilitites. As I said before there are so many legends and myths in football that overshadow what has really happened. Ronaldo for instance will always be rememberes as an exceptionally precise and dangerous free-kicker - which he is not and never was. But if you come along and tell that in a discussion, everyone around will call you an idiot "because everybody knows how good a free-kicker Ronaldo was"...

Ok, how about this... By all accounts Ronaldo has scored 10% of his goals in the last 7 years from free kicks. That's pretty good... It would be great to find a year by year breakdown but I couldn't. I suspect he started his career stronger than he is finishing with free kicks - which is pretty standard in any sport.

The amazing thing to me is how many "other foot" goals each of these two has scored... I could barely dribble the ball with me left left alone score a goal.

[Frank Brickowski]

21 minutes ago, gregpj said:

Ok, how about this... By all accounts Ronaldo has scored 10% of his goals in the last 7 years from free kicks. That's pretty good... It would be great to find a year by year breakdown but I couldn't. I suspect he started his career stronger than he is finishing with free kicks - which is pretty standard in any sport.

The amazing thing to me is how many "other foot" goals each of these two has scored... I could barely dribble the ball with me left left alone score a goal.

 

I've always wondered what is supposed to be "pro" about a player who cannot shoot with his other foot. Messi and Ronaldo are obviously very good at that and as I said, I regard them as exceptinally good players, while having my doubts about many other "stars" who - for example - don't hit their grandma in a wheelchair when forced to use their "non-standard" foot to shoot.

I admit that some players can do specific things on the field really good, no question. What I just don't like is people making stories up about what this or that player can do, sometimes judging from only one or two (maybe accidental) occurences in his whole career. This is quite typical for football fans. Have you ever heard people discuss the top striker of a league, talking about his quota and not only about the goals he made. If you'd join a conversation that starts like "He made 30 goals that season!" and interject "Yes, but he needed 300 attempts for that - which makes his feat far less impressive, doesn't it.", you'd certainly be told to **** off, in part because people rather want to dream about their heroes and their miracles than looking at what rather earthly abilities they really have.

To make it short: I'd just like everybody to be a bit more realistic about the sport and the players.

"By all accounts Ronaldo has scored 10% of his goals in the last 7 years from free kicks"

-> The problem here is, again: 10 % could be great, but he might have taken so many attempts that 10 % doesn't sound that good in the end. As long as I dont know the quota the sheer amount says nothing about quality.

Edited June 16, 2016 by Frank Brickowski

[Frank Brickowski]

23 hours ago, Will 4 said:

 I feel football could learn from the American version and vary plays more with snapshots and more movement rather than standing around.

From my perspective there are many points where football could evolve into a more sophisticated game - by really analysing the stats they have, they should alone have long come to some sensible conclusions, which I don't understand has simply not happened:

- look at the (darn low) success ratio of corners and adjust the way the are used; or do at least pratice corner kicks! (having to look at how many corners are kicked totally off target - many don't even reach ANY player, which is shameful for a pro kicker - is really annoying)
- look at the (low) success ratio of free-kicks and adjust the way the are used
- pay much more attention to how long throw-ins can be used effectively to create chances right before the goal
- stop the defense from playing short-pass tiki-taka right after stopping the offense when all the offensive players are still close by, instead of just clearing the situation by kicking the ball away (that has really become annoying to watch because over and over again defenses are creating new chances for the offense by making passing mistakes - why does everybody nowadays follow that "we don't kick the ball long forward but make many short passes ALL THE TIME, no matter how dangerous" high percentage of ball possesion idea? I mean, yes, Spain became European and World Champions with that tactic, but even they didn't apply this concept in EVERY situation
- stop passing back into your own half from good offensive field positions (near the box) just to maintain ball possession, instead of taking the risk of losing the ball going forward (accompanied by the chance of scoring a goal) - I mean it is a well-known fact that chances in football are pretty rare (compared to other sports), so how could ball possession more important be more important than playing FORWARD from a good position even if it is just a mediocre opportunity?
- pay more attention to free kicks from the side/corner of the box (even if further away) - those are so much more dangerous than frontal free-kicks as well as all those senseless corners
- overall: look at what is really efficient in terms of getting a win and WHO is really efficient in scoring goals in what situation (how about NOT using Ronaldo for free-kicks from now on anymore? Look at his stats! No one seems to care...)! I know, this again sounds pretty arrogant, but some of those points are so obvious it just hurts nobody that seems to care changing anything

[BP]

21 minutes ago, Frank Brickowski said:

Everything Frank said

[Will 4]

England beat Wales yeees

[Frank Brickowski]

"Why so serious? Have a laugh!" - The Football Edition:
Today's topic: Who are the goofiest players from your country - and why? From Germany my nominations are:

1.) Max Kruse - got himself out of the national team due to detrimental behaviour TWICE, last time he "lost"/"forgot" about 75K cash in a cab at night:

2.) Kevin Großkreutz - earned a lot of questionable fame with his dorky performance in a Mentos commercial and for p***ing (guess what for yourself) into a hotel lobby:

3.) Pierre-Michel Lasogga - his mother originally named him Pierre-Michelle... that would already have said it all, but not to forget his plethora of facial expressions - about twenty of them looking quite similar to this:

Edited June 18, 2016 by Frank Brickowski

[Will 4]

Emmanuel Adebayor blaming his goal scoring drought on his Mother possessing him.

or

[Frank Brickowski]

Portugal vs Austria: 0:0. Portugal totally dominant, much better offensively, much better defensively. 21 attempts, 6 on target, 10 corners plus 1 penalty vs 3 attempts, 1 on target and 0 corners. Yet we have a draw in the end. Fair sport? Effort being rewarded? Nope. Testimony of a broken overall concept once again.

In the tournament Ronaldo has now reached 20 attempts with 0 goals. And 35 free kicks with 0 goals in his tournament career.

[Frank Brickowski]

Could anyone please explain the reasonableness of the following rules to me since this is beyond me?

1. Extra-time:
Playing another 30(!) minutes after 90 minutes didn't result in a winner instead of going straight to the penalties. From what we've seen over and over again, extra-time is merely a cramp-infested stalemate with two completely exhausted teams in fear of getting a goal against dawdling around until extra-time is finally up. So why not go directly to penalties after 90 minutes rather than staging that extra-time torture (for players AND viewers)?

2. Concerning offside:
Why is a player still being whistled offside, when he is NOT offside anymore th moment he actually GETS the ball? Why is the offside rule not (at least) focused on players who are offside the moment the pass is played AND the moment they receive the ball? What disadvantage does a defender have against a (formerly offside) striker in that situation? Moreover: Why does the offside rule still "need" to be enforced when all but 2-3 players are in one half or even positioned around the box (when the offense is in full attack)? It always looks like a stupid fuss when strikers try to avoid being offside in those constellations, with almost all the opponents being only a few meters away from them, but strikers still being forced to stay "behind" them.

3. Only goals have a significance:
Fans insist on offside being an important rule for the (balance/character of the) game. While that rule had been instated 90 years ago and is still being regarded as necessary, why is another rule equally old not being applied anymore?: When there is a draw at the end of the game, instead of counting the game as a draw the team with more corners wins. This way football would evolve into being a much fairer game rewarding more of a team's effort instead of persisting on goals only to determine the winner of a game. We already have the rule of away goals beging "worth" more in Champions League K.O. games for instance. So there IS in fact a rule in place to award a team apart from just scored goals alone. So why not build on this to make it a fairer game?

Edited June 19, 2016 by Frank Brickowski

[feed]

Frank, you do know that you’ve killed the thread and no one reads anything you post here.  The point of the thread was for people to discuss the tournament, not how much you dislike football.  If you want to debate football go find a football forum.  

[Bold-Arrow]

The real fun starts today . My guess : France to top the group . Romania to finish second. 

[Bold-Arrow]

12 hours ago, Bold-Arrow said:

The real fun starts today . My guess : France to top the group . Romania to finish second. 

What do I know 

[BP]

On 18-6-2016 at 5:58 AM, Frank Brickowski said:

"Why so serious? Have a laugh!" - The Football Edition:

Ah finally, something interesting from Frank, thanks!

 

The Belgium edition:

 

 

1. Jonathan Legear: 

2 caps for our National team and a promising carreer around his 20's, Jonathan was once one of our biggest talents. 

He isn't the smartest of the bunch tho and this will get his career stranded. 

Most notable things done:

- Tattoo:

Jonathan wants a tattoo and want's to put the legendary Julius Caesar quote: ' Veni vidi vici' on his arm. 

Using google apparantely isn't his main quality so Jonathan puts: Vini Vidi Vici on his arm, which basicly means: 'From the wine, I saw, I conquered'

- Car Crash:

Jonathan decided to cash in his talent and go play for Russian Terek Grozny, his career is going seriously downhill after that. 

After a drunk night out in Belgium, he crashes his car in a gas station shop, the results are devastating. 

250000 euro of damage but luckily none of the 20 people inside are seriously hurt. 

http://www.knack.be/nieuws/bewakingscamera-filmt-hoe-legear-tankstation-binnenrijdt/video-normal-41721.html

 

2.Anthony Vandenborre:

VDB debuts in Anderlecht with just 16 years of age. He makes such a big impression that after 5 matches, he gets his call up for the Red Devils. 

He debuts in our national team at the age of 16 years, making him the second youngest player to debut in the history. 

In dark times for our Belgian football, he's together with Vincent Kompany the hope of our nation. 

What follows is a wasted career with plenty of teamswitches due too his mentality, VDB appears to be lazy. 

Seizoen	Club	w (g)
2003-2007 2007-2008 2008-2008 2008-2010 2009-2010 2011-2012 2013-	RSC Anderlecht Fiorentina → Genoa Genoa → Portsmouth FC KRC Genk RSC Anderlecht	69 (3) 2 (0) 6 (0) 24 (0) 19 (0) 42 (1) 39(1)

 

In 2013 his youth team Anderlecht offers VDB a chance to make his comeback. After months of intensive training and playing in the B-team,

VDB makes his comeback in the first team. He seems to be completely back and makes a big impression all seacon. 

Such a big impression, that Wilmots decides to call him up for the WC2014 in Brasil.

VDB starts the third match against South-Korea and besides standing on the ball, something he did with Anderlecht a few times already:

he breaks his shin bone and his WC is over. 

After the WC, his career goes downhill again. 

He hits national media with this hilarious image when he stands behinds his coach Hasi: 

http://sporza.be/cm/sporza/videozone/sporten/voetbal/JupilerProLeague/2.34898/1.2111165

Later on he declares he wasn't wearing his contact lenses and that's why he had that look on his face

In 2015, he declares openly in the national media that his coach and teamplayers are 'janetten', freely translated as 'wussies'. 

He immediately flies back to the B-squad and till today he remains there, because no other team wants to buy him. 

With coach Hasi being fired last month, Anderlecht decides to give hem yet another chance... 

To be continued :). 

 

 

 

Edited June 20, 2016 by BP

[Frank Brickowski]

4 hours ago, BP said:

- Tattoo:

Jonathan wants a tattoo and want's to put the legendary Julius Caesar quote: ' Veni vidi vici' on his arm. 

Using google apparantely isn't his main quality so Jonathan puts: Vini Vidi Vici on his arm, which basicly means: 'From the wine, I saw, I conquered'

- Car Crash:

Jonathan decided to cash in his talent and go play for Russian Terek Grozny, his career is going seriously downhill after that. 

After a drunk night out in Belgium, he crashes his car in a gas station shop, the results are devastating. 

250000 euro of damage but luckily none of the 20 people inside are seriously hurt. 

 

Very interesting stories there, thanks! Concerning the "Vini"... maybe it was not a mistake, but on purpose since later he crahed into the gas station shop after getting drunk - even if he only "saw" afterwards but didn't really "conquer" anything from there.

[BP]

He sure did conquer that gas station

[Bold-Arrow]

Uefa better scrap this 24 teams format . Turning into a snooze fest with all the bus parking .. Weaker teams want a point in the hope of making it as the best third team .. Knockout round better turn things around . Copa has been way better and more exciting . 

[Will 4]

15 hours ago, Bold-Arrow said:

Uefa better scrap this 24 teams format . Turning into a snooze fest with all the bus parking .. Weaker teams want a point in the hope of making it as the best third team .. Knockout round better turn things around . Copa has been way better and more exciting . 

No wonder those fans have been making trouble no good football to view

[Bold-Arrow]

Well then , I bet no one saw that bottom bracket coming . Sizzling games . The top one is still fun to watch as it can be anyone's guess . 

[lego rules]

Good job Croatia.  Two bad calls almost cost them the game.  The soccer Gods rewarded a result.