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2 hours ago, Alpinemaps said:

Rare, but it happens.

So circling back to my question from earlier - what level of fraud do we find acceptable?

Zero.  I don't find murder acceptable either in case you were wondering.  However, when either occur, I expect it to be captured and put through the justice system.

For voting fraud to occur, you have to have so many things go wrong.  This is not a full list but some items as examples

1) Each district knows the population  

2) Each district knows how their district typically votes (within deviations of course)

3) Each district knows what percentage of voters typically turn out (high, lows, etc..)

4) Each district has Multiple people watching over the election process

5) Each district has their own standards on how people can register to vote

6) Each district is within the USA and falls under our judicial system, of which, the vast majority of people know it is unlawful to illegally vote.

Is it still possible to commit voter fraud.  Of course it is, just like murder is possible.  However , unlike murder, which I would say is very low already, it is already statistically so much lower than murder that it is a "fake outrage" that is being created.  Especially when some states have been voting by mail 100% for year and years and year, w/o any issues.  So what would they suddenly have one now?

If voter fraud was such an issue, why even waste money on advertising, on campaign visits, on everything. Just spend the money making ballots and blowing past all those items listed above.  

Like Russia, where there are video's after video's of people taking ballots and just dumping them in.  

Let's not forget too, part of the stimulus package was more money for elections, but Republicans balked at this being included... which surprised no one.  Anyone else hear about Texas reducing ballot drop off boxes to 1 per County.  Which equates to 4.7MM Houston citizens that have 1 drop box to utilize.  If they all chose to use the drop box, they would have to drop off 6,000+ ballots per hour every hour to meet the deadline.  Imagine that for a second, 6,000 people having to drop off their ballots every hour until election to satisfy the County.  Opponents say "well if you want to vote, you will drive by and drop it off, we still make time for grocery shopping".  Imagine having to go buy groceries and having 6,000 people there as well within the same hour.  

Anyway, the answer is Zero. :)    I don't care who you vote for, but vote and don't complain if you don't vote and don't like the outcome.

EDIT: Obviously, I voted Biden.  I hoped for the best with Trump, I really did.  But I've been in my house for 240 days only leaving for groceries and to see my mom/dad 2 times and I'm sick of there being no f'ing plan to get us out of this.  I'm tired of "putting cloth" over our face even being debatable.  It's disgusting, the leadership is awful and full of BS over and over and over again.  The press conferences on COVID were embarrassing.  I don't care what happened or was said in the first couple weeks.  There has been zero shift in plans since except spew the same dumb stuff over and over again.  Scientists will save us, not this administration.  When a vaccine becomes available from any company that succeeds, whomever is president will surely have it distributed after it passes all the necessary tests.  Overall, I'm fed up with this timeline and look forward to another team coming in and Leading from the top to everyone, not just red states or whomever is in his trumps pocket.  I'm also pissed that he steals golf revenue from us every week.  We complain about the smallest things, but accept millions beyond millions just going directly to his businesses.  That is not very presidential if you are trying to save the USA money when we are exceeding budgets like crazy.  Anyway, go vote.  I'll still be your friend if we are not on the same page here.  I have kept level heads with any republican friends throughout this.  I was once a republican and voted that way all the way up to 2016.  (and never Scott Walker too) :) Take care everyone 

EDIT2:  Sometimes I'm asked, well how would you have solved this COVID thing... Sure here goes.

#1 - Have a goal.  Maybe in April/May/June or July even made the serious goal of "we want to make sure our children are back in school come Sept 1"

#2 - How do we obtain this goal.  Severe methods vs Non-Severe methods.  What are other countries doing, etc....  Select the most appropriate method and implement it across the nation.  It probably would have just had to be some of the following (and others too of course):

2a... everyone who can stays at home (duh right)
2b..... everyone will be provided with enough money to pay rent/home payments, auto, etc.... and where needed food assistance including delivery of food to those most at risk (pretty much keep unemployment going + extra to those that may not qualify and to be fair to all those actually working still)
2c..... all small businesses are provide with income to continue to survive to pay their rents/expenses etc.....

2d... basically pull out all the cards to make sure nearly everyone possible is taken care of to keep the cases from going up

#3... test the hell out of everyone, test them more than once, but make sure the virus is cornered.
#4.... educate everyone on why this is being done and drill home the following ovre and over and over again "proper masks to wear, social distancing, we are in this together, we are getting there, be 100% honest, just be honest"
#5... mail every person in America multiple masks.  have a store online where citizens can buy more masks from the Post Office (help fund them too) to get creative ones or ones that fit your style, maybe you need a larger size too
#6.... if needed, pay incentives to those whom are covid free (small tax credit) - this one I'm sketchy on, but I feel there could be some kind of incentive to those that continually test negative, but not Large enough to matter in the grand scheme (it's a work in progress)
#7... then obviously make sure all front line workers no matter what industry they are in have the proper items to keep them from spreading 

anyway, these items are just things I literally wrote in the last 7 minutes.  I'm not a task force, which is why I can't believe the "task" force implemented next to nothing other than "hope" for a vaccine.  

This is the end. I can only do so much of this, but this is also a stress reliever simply typing it out, even if you hate everything about it.  That's your problem, not mine.  I wanted a common solution we could all get behind.  Imagine COVID was under control and only popping up in pockets here and there.  Trump would have won in a landslide and even though I probably still would have voted Biden (not sure) it wouldn't have mattered as much because he took care of us...instead of watching 200k die and barely acknowledging it.
 

Edited by LegoMan1212
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9 hours ago, Alpinemaps said:

I have no great insight. But I do know people that stayed home because they felt that their vote didn’t matter in 2016.

I live in NJ and used to live in NY.  I know a number of people who did the same - stayed home.  Even with that being the case, I thought NJ was a whole lot closer than I ever thought it would have been in 2016.

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50 minutes ago, exracer327 said:

I live in NJ and used to live in NY.  I know a number of people who did the same - stayed home.  Even with that being the case, I thought NJ was a whole lot closer than I ever thought it would have been in 2016.

Likewise in WI, I clearly remember telling one of my co-workers to leave and vote but he figured it wouldn't be close.

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Thank you @LegoMan1212, what you typed took berries and I appreciate that. I agreed with alot of your Task Force Plan.  

@Alpinemaps, I would say Zero fraud as well. Mistakes, ok, we can work through those. But fraud, no way jose.  

One of my biggest peevs about the election process is if a candidate knows they wont win the popular vote, they target the correct amount of electoral votes and then inundate those states with lies, propaganda and fear.  I mean, those are tactics discussed straight out of mein kempf.  

Also, trying to disregard hindsight and keeping basic science and particle/dust/contaminate containment in mind, I would have kept to my same plan as we discussed back in March in the Covid thread.

I would have opened up the development of a rapid test from actual companies that specialize in serology and not made it a race for profits.  Also, I would have included other countries early on that had already developed a PCR based test (15 min, rare false neg/pos) and was testing tens of thousands a day before the summer (S.Korea, Japan, etc). Testing early on is key to minimize the spread, which we had plenty of time to do.

Also, facemasks would have been mandatory with strict enforcement.

But first things first, I would have educated the population right out of the gate. So they knew what we were up against and how good hygiene, social distancing and wearing masks are truly the only weapon we as humans have against a novel(new) virus we understand so little about(No test, vaccine or treatment). 

Calling the disease a hoax or 'just like the flu' gave so many nut jobs and know it alls a false sense of knowledge to actually go against the advice of scientists.  Think of that for a minute.  We all wasted time discussing if masks work, why cant I go to the bar or church and the death count is inflated.  And we are still going around this merry-go-round as schools are dealing with clusters along with Hollywood, Pro Sports and even the WHITE HOUSE.

 

Edited by BricksBrotha
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7 hours ago, LegoMan1212 said:

#2 - How do we obtain this goal.  Severe methods vs Non-Severe methods.  What are other countries doing, etc....  Select the most appropriate method and implement it across the nation.  It probably would have just had to be some of the following (and others too of course):

Mostly dying, like everybody else. No-one has had the answer (unless we believe/try China's method of throwing people into vans, never to be seen again). It's even debatable whether Sweden who did virtually nothing (advising people to be careful) has been any worse than other countries (while being able to maintain their economy, and way of life).

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54 minutes ago, KShine said:

Mostly dying, like everybody else. No-one has had the answer (unless we believe/try China's method of throwing people into vans, never to be seen again). It's even debatable whether Sweden who did virtually nothing (advising people to be careful) has been any worse than other countries (while being able to maintain their economy, and way of life).

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/10/it-s-been-so-so-surreal-critics-sweden-s-lax-pandemic-policies-face-fierce-backlash

I get what you mean, but Sweeden is def worse than other countries who had stricter bans. So you need research a bit more about the EU, UK, Scandanavia before making any parallels or conclusions.   It appears Sweden's politicians and appointed Dr's decison to keep the country 'open' was highly controversial among the actual doctors working in the hospitals and scientists in the community.  

Also, still way to early to make any conclusions from Sweden's response. Currently, they have a similar death percentage toll to that of the US which is one of the worst!  Personally, I would rather be safe and use known protocols for centuries ie distancing, facemasks, etc.  

"But within Sweden’s scientific and medical community, a debate about the strategy has simmered and frequently boiled over—in the opinion pages of newspapers, within university departments, and among hospital staff. A group of scientists known as “the 22” has called for tougher measures since April, when it published a blistering critique of the country’s public health authority, the Folkhälsomyndigheten (FoHM). The group, which has grown to include 50 scientists and another 150 supporting members, now calls itself the Vetenskapsforum COVID-19 (Science Forum COVID-19). 

It says the price for Sweden’s laissez-faire approach has been too high. The country’s cumulative death rate since the beginning of the pandemic rivals that of the United States, with its shambolic response. And the virus took a shocking toll on the most vulnerable. It had free rein in nursing homes, where nearly 1000 people died in a matter of weeks. Stockholm’s nursing homes ended up losing 7% of their 14,000 residents to the virus. The vast majority were not taken to hospitals. Although infections waned over the summer, scientists worry a new wave will hit in the fall. Cases are rising rapidly in the greater Stockholm area, where almost one-quarter of the Swedish population lives.'

 

Edited by BricksBrotha
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9 minutes ago, BricksBrotha said:

 

After the initial high rates of death (per million) Sweden have been better than most - I expect that the end rates will be fairly similar to others countries (while being able to maintain their economy, while others have been destroyed). Countries/states that locked down hard, simply spiked up after re-opening (as the virus is quite patient). 

The USA has so many reasons to be a problem with the virus - From our general stupidity, selfish lifestyles, and general disregard for others. Our way of life simply makes us a enormously easy target for the virus. We also have so many elderly/sick who remain alive only through active assistance (who certainly have a hard time being able to survive the virus).

12 minutes ago, exciter1 said:

Yeah, well, it's hard for politics and voting to not take crazy turns. The Macks might be ok with it and I'll let it go until they want it shut down.

I think people have been fairly decent/respectful in their comments (surprisingly).

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Some charts regarding fatality rate comparisons are here: https://issuesinsights.com/2020/09/23/some-coronavirus-facts-democrats-and-the-media-want-to-keep-buried/ (writers are right-wing. data comes from "Our World in Data" and the CDC.)

5 minutes ago, TANV said:

can we steer back to Not-COVID topics?

 

This year, how can one separate the two? Is the news about the virus driven by the election?

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27 minutes ago, TANV said:

Oh wow. This thread is totally off the rails from what I originally posted. Uh...can we steer back to Not-COVID topics? I'm sure we have a thread for that somewhere...

5 minutes ago, SpaceFan9 said:

This year, how can one separate the two? Is the news about the virus driven by the election?

Unfortunately, this election season, voting and covid are intertwined.  When talking about one, the other will be directly tied.  I am a mid-thirties something, who feels disenfranchised from both parties. I feel we are at a huge crossroads with our country.  I would love to see a major 3rd party immerge, maybe call it the 'Common' party.  

 

8 minutes ago, KShine said:

After the initial high rates of death (per million) Sweden have been better than most - I expect that the end rates will be fairly similar to others countries (while being able to maintain their economy, while others have been destroyed).

Again, this brings up the discussion of economy over humanity. Money over innocent lives, basically right vs wrong.  I am not one to decide who lives and dies, therefore I would remain on the more cautious side, even if that meant we had to rebuild our economy. We have done it before and certainly we can do it again. 

Essentially one question comes to mind, Do we value the economy in todays society over innocent lives? It does look to be about a 50/50 split these days. 

 

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2 minutes ago, BricksBrotha said:

Again, this brings up the discussion of economy over humanity. Money over innocent lives, basically right vs wrong.  I am not one to decide who lives and dies, therefore I would remain on the more cautious side, even if that meant we had to rebuild our economy. We have done it before and certainly we can do it again. 

Destroying the economy destroys lives, and does cause much death. It might not show up in direct body counts, but it absolutely does show up. Suicides, murders, overdoses, and violence brought upon by financial sufferings (and isolation for those with mental health issues) can be dismissed, and the cause can easily be denied, but it is real and damaging.

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2 minutes ago, KShine said:

Destroying the economy destroys lives, and does cause much death. It might not show up in direct body counts, but it absolutely does show up. Suicides, murders, overdoses, and violence brought upon by financial sufferings (and isolation for those with mental health issues) can be dismissed, and the cause can easily be denied, but it is real and damaging.

I have seen this argument before and have also researched the statitics. You are talking about deaths caused from mental instability. And Id agree they occur on larger scale during a national tragedy, but for all our country boasts about being the best, could we not put civic policy in place to address at least some of these measures? @LegoMan1212laid out quite the plan.

10 hours ago, LegoMan1212 said:

#1 - Have a goal.  Maybe in April/May/June or July even made the serious goal of "we want to make sure our children are back in school come Sept 1"

#2 - How do we obtain this goal.  Severe methods vs Non-Severe methods.  What are other countries doing, etc....  Select the most appropriate method and implement it across the nation.  It probably would have just had to be some of the following (and others too of course):

2a... everyone who can stays at home (duh right)
2b..... everyone will be provided with enough money to pay rent/home payments, auto, etc.... and where needed food assistance including delivery of food to those most at risk (pretty much keep unemployment going + extra to those that may not qualify and to be fair to all those actually working still)
2c..... all small businesses are provide with income to continue to survive to pay their rents/expenses etc.....

2d... basically pull out all the cards to make sure nearly everyone possible is taken care of to keep the cases from going up

#3... test the hell out of everyone, test them more than once, but make sure the virus is cornered.
#4.... educate everyone on why this is being done and drill home the following ovre and over and over again "proper masks to wear, social distancing, we are in this together, we are getting there, be 100% honest, just be honest"
#5... mail every person in America multiple masks.  have a store online where citizens can buy more masks from the Post Office (help fund them too) to get creative ones or ones that fit your style, maybe you need a larger size too
#6.... if needed, pay incentives to those whom are covid free (small tax credit) - this one I'm sketchy on, but I feel there could be some kind of incentive to those that continually test negative, but not Large enough to matter in the grand scheme (it's a work in progress)
#7... then obviously make sure all front line workers no matter what industry they are in have the proper items to keep them from spreading 

Sure that would hinder our GDP and record breaking stocks, but other businesses would immerge and people adapt.  

Whose to say the economy would even collapse? Maybe a correction is what is needed anyways??  we are both speculating but the data on Covid is there and climbing daily.

I guess from my science oriented brain, I have a hard time comprehending allowing a new virus run amuck simply because we are afraid people will start committing suicide, killing each other, and overdosing.  

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22 minutes ago, BricksBrotha said:

 Again, this brings up the discussion of economy over humanity. Money over innocent lives, basically right vs wrong.

Essentially one question comes to mind, Do we value the economy in todays society over innocent lives?

Definitely going for the emotional response with these statements.

I tend to more focus on the societal issues surrounding Covid, and not in the typically talked about sense. Having a preexisting condition raises your chances of death/hospitalization significantly, and unfortunately America is basically a walking preexisting condition.

Obesity is obviously a massive contributing factor to the death rate, with the numbers largely falling in line with the most overweight countries having the highest death rate.

So when people talk about more quarantine, masks, etc., while I don't necessarily disagree, I really think eating a salad and taking a walk would likely be the best treatment of Covid (statistically this is true as the majority of conditions are based on lifestyle and are 100% preventable).

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3 minutes ago, BricksBrotha said:

I have seen this argument before and have also researched the statitics. You are talking about deaths caused from mental instability. And Id agree they occur on larger scale during a national tragedy, but for all our country boasts about being the best, could we not put civic policy in place to address at least some of these measures? @LegoMan1212laid out quite the plan.

Sure that would hinder our GDP and record breaking stocks, but other businesses would immerge and people adapt.  

Whose to say the economy would even collapse? Maybe a correction is what is needed anyways??  we are both speculating but the data on Covid is there and climbing daily.

I guess from my science oriented brain, I have a hard time comprehending allowing a new virus run amuck simply because we are afraid people will start committing suicide, killing each other, and overdosing.  

That is dismissing the issue (because no, we couldn't just create a policy to make things good in the world).

If countries with lockdowns showed any significant saving of life, it could be debated, but overall they haven't (although in situations like when NYC healthcare was being overwhelmed a lockdown is essential - as we certainly can't have people dying in the streets). 

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55 minutes ago, KShine said:

After the initial high rates of death (per million) Sweden have been better than most - I expect that the end rates will be fairly similar to others countries (while being able to maintain their economy, while others have been destroyed). Countries/states that locked down hard, simply spiked up after re-opening (as the virus is quite patient). 

I am sorry but this is simply not true.  Currently Sweden exceeds excess deaths of both their Scandinavian counter parts, Denmark and Germany. All had stricter measurements of some sort in place by end of March.  

'Another way to measure the pandemic’s impact is to look at “excess deaths,” the difference between the number of people who died this year and average deaths in earlier years. Those curves show Sweden did not suffer as many excess deaths as England and Wales—whose tolls were among Europe’s highest—but many more than Germany and its Nordic neighbors (see graphic, above). Immigrant communities were hit very hard. Between March and September, 111 people from Somalia and 247 from Syria died, compared with 5-year averages of 34 and 93, respectively.'

2 minutes ago, spener90 said:

Definitely going for the emotional response with these statements.

Id totally agree with you and anyone who knows me knows I am an emotional person.

Death invokes emotions and viruses cause death. Emotional, sure, but also factual.  I am not sure what kind of response you would prefer here? We have facts that state we acted too slow and told lie after lie.   Its also important to have a human side of decision making, not only financial.

  

 

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5 minutes ago, KShine said:

That is dismissing the issue (because no, we couldn't just create a policy to make things good in the world).

Devising civic policy has been instrumental in developed society's dating back as early as Mesopotamia and Egypt civilizations.  Where there is a will, there is a way. No reason to ingnore history in 2020, we should embrace it. If you dont think something will work, its definitely not going to work. The old "can do" attitude is needed in a time of emergency.

 You are also talking conditions cause by a instable economy. All conditions that already exist, but would increase exponentially.  Why? how to solve? Who to help?  All easier questions to work through than that of Novel virus spreading asymptomatically through 6 billion people.  I just dont see how they are the same, but thats where i will have to just agree to disagree. 

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Of course Sweden is going to have a higher count (no one would have expected otherwise). But it spiked early and was then better than in other places. When they decided not to lockdown, people were expecting incredibly high death comparisons, and that was simply not the case. Higher yes, but the result is certainly not as was expected.

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Looks like we did an end around to bring back the covid thread boys.  Yee haw!

20 minutes ago, spener90 said:

So when people talk about more quarantine, masks, etc., while I don't necessarily disagree, I really think eating a salad and taking a walk would likely be the best treatment of Covid (statistically this is true as the majority of conditions are based on lifestyle and are 100% preventable).

If they're going to tell people to wash their hands, maintain distance, etc. we should also encourage changes like this that improve general health and others that improve/boost the immune system.

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4 minutes ago, fuzzy_bricks said:

Looks like we did an end around to bring back the covid thread boys.  Yee haw!

If they're going to tell people to wash their hands, maintain distance, etc. we should also encourage changes like this that improve general health and others that improve/boost the immune system.

As I was writing the post I thought the same thing...

And I definitely agree with encouraging people to be better, but I tend to think most people know whether something is good or bad for them already. <-- This is why I am not really inspired by politics. America is bigger than one man.

Edited by spener90
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22 hours ago, brickvoyeur said:

Tired of strangers watching you build without your permission? brickvoyeur knows exactly how they do it.

Tired of having the status quo dropping heavy political bricks on your chest? brickvoyer can lift that weight

Want infinte ROI and a booming Lego aftermarket? Vote brickvoyeur, 2020

image.png.b786f4a1d9082652d34d9e562369dc0c.png

 

33 minutes ago, spener90 said:

So when people talk about more quarantine, masks, etc., while I don't necessarily disagree, I really think eating a salad and taking a walk would likely be the best treatment of Covid (statistically this is true as the majority of conditions are based on lifestyle and are 100% preventable).

To help avoid healthy eating, and exercise, in order to maintain the American way; Brickvoyeur will use a vacuum to suck the fat out of the obese and pump it into those with eating disorders to plump them up. We will maintain balance and weight equality, without inconveniencing anyone's lifestyle.

image.png.b786f4a1d9082652d34d9e562369dc0c.png

 

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16 minutes ago, brickvoyeur said:

 

To help avoid healthy eating, and exercise, in order to maintain the American way; Brickvoyeur will use a vacuum to suck the fat out of the obese and pump it into those with eating disorders to plump them up. We will maintain balance and weight equality, without inconveniencing anyone's lifestyle.

image.png.b786f4a1d9082652d34d9e562369dc0c.png

 

Can the slogan be "Grab a Plunger"?

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There is honestly nothing that Joe Biden would have done differently than Trump in the early stages of the pandemic. Biden did nothing about swine flu as VP other than allow it to run rampant and infect 60 million Americans in a single flu season and use up the national medical supplies stockpile without replenishing it. If swine flu had been half as deadly as Covid-19 there would have been a lot more than 200k dead. Biden was busy calling President Trump xenophobic and watching Nancy Pelosi parade around China town saying "come on down".

Meanwhile, Democrat Governors in Michigan and NJ ordered nursing homes to take in 20 something year old Covid-19 patients. This decimated those states elderly in the homes.

The death totals for Covid-19 have been vastly overblown in my opinion. The CDC came out and stated that only 6% of the total Covid-19 deaths in the 200k were strictly from Covid with no underlying pre-existing conditions. Suicides and accidents are being counted as Covid-19 deaths if they happened to have the coronavirus.

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12 minutes ago, Shortbus311 said:

There is honestly nothing that Joe Biden would have done differently than Trump in the early stages of the pandemic. Biden did nothing about swine flu as VP other than allow it to run rampant and infect 60 million Americans in a single flu season and use up the national medical supplies stockpile without replenishing it. If swine flu had been half as deadly as Covid-19 there would have been a lot more than 200k dead. Biden was busy calling President Trump xenophobic and watching Nancy Pelosi parade around China town saying "come on down".

Meanwhile, Democrat Governors in Michigan and NJ ordered nursing homes to take in 20 something year old Covid-19 patients. This decimated those states elderly in the homes.

The death totals for Covid-19 have been vastly overblown in my opinion. The CDC came out and stated that only 6% of the total Covid-19 deaths in the 200k were strictly from Covid with no underlying pre-existing conditions. Suicides and accidents are being counted as Covid-19 deaths if they happened to have the coronavirus.

I get that you don't have high confidence in the numbers...and anyone can make a hypothetical argument seem true

Simply stated, life right now sucks for me, for my family, and for pretty much everyone we know...compared to pre-CV. That's not made up or media bias telling us our life sucks.  so it's REAL...denying it makes one appear delusional.

Also your points are flawed in that there is a big difference between the beginning, middle and current times...Yes, many can speculate there was enough unknowns early on that caused poor or slow action..and hindsight is 20-20. So if everyone gets a pass in Feb/March...it does not explain the poor actions in April, May, June, July, Aug, Sept...and now October...unless you think everyone getting a $200K experimental drug for free is realistic and a good message to tell the nation?

The nail in the coffin for me is this...looking at the last 8 months as a whole...the US is bottom tier in the world in terms of its progress w/ CV...and has been for most of that duration...and there is zero evidence that its going to get any better soon. what has this country been doing the last 8 months other than bickering amongst ourselves...that's poor leadership...and leadership issues are always top down.

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I get that you don't have high confidence in the numbers...and anyone can make a hypothetical argument seem true
Simply stated, life right now sucks for me, for my family, and for pretty much everyone we know...compared to pre-CV. That's not made up or media bias telling us our life sucks.  so it's REAL...denying it makes one appear delusional.
Also your points are flawed in that there is a big difference between the beginning, middle and current times...Yes, many can speculate there was enough unknowns early on that caused poor or slow action..and hindsight is 20-20. So if everyone gets a pass in Feb/March...it does not explain the poor actions in April, May, June, July, Aug, Sept...and now October...unless you think everyone getting a $200K experimental drug for free is realistic and a good message to tell the nation?
The nail in the coffin for me is this...looking at the last 8 months as a whole...the US is bottom tier in the world in terms of its progress w/ CV...and has been for most of that duration...and there is zero evidence that its going to get any better soon. what has this country been doing the last 8 months other than bickering amongst ourselves...that's poor leadership...and leadership issues are always top down.


I am truly sorry that your circumstances are that bad. I feel pretty lucky that neither myself nor my family members have any of the pre-existing conditions that truly make this virus dangerous.

Life for me has pretty much returned back to normal with the exception of wearing a mask everywhere and the movie theaters showing nothing but reruns.

I do not see any actions, taken or not taken, since April as a mistake. The most susceptible should be strictly quarantining until a vaccine becomes available. And I get it, that does stink if you are among those who need to do that. But driving our country further and further into debt by borrowing from our future generations to pay for rent/living expenses/business leases/expenses for every American just seems absurd to me. The welfare state of our country is already obscene, we don't need to further encourage it by providing free paychecks for nothing imo.
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