gregpj Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 So if the real problem is the ultra rich and corporations, why have this argument if it doesn't fix the real problem Nobody's arguing... I think the debate has been quite civil. Unfortunately, the ultra rich and corporations are also the ones who do the hardest lobbying. They couldn't give a crap if small businesses get squeezed out. And politicians pander to the public to get their vote. IMO simply raising the minimum wage to provide what seems like a "living wage" without fixing some other problems will, in the end, fail. A- don't have kids you can't afford or B- get training/education so you aren't min wage I think I answered that above - people in poverty get stuck in this cycle. They become parents too young, go to jail or join a gang... they don't get a good education or job training as a result. Their kids are poor and fall into the same "trap" ... the cycle continues. Proponents of "living wages" along with the proper support programs want to break that cycle. If you could reduce poverty by 5% a year by yanking people out with good wages and good jobs, I really do believe it would become self sustaining and eventually make a real difference. (Yes, I have a very strong opinion about this stuff :)) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tabolton314 Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 If it's not possible how about A- don't have kids you can't afford orB- get training/education so you aren't min wageI make more than most here. While in college 10 years ago I took a 4 week training program to be a nurses aide. After a month a made $13/hr and made more than my room mate who had a master's in social workMaybe you missed the part where neither of those things are easy to do or even possible if you don't already have some advantages. a - see my posts above about the lack of sex education and the ability to make choices about unintentional pregnancy in a large swath of the countryb - if you can't even make ends meet to pay the bills, have a roof over your head, eat, how are you going to find the money to get into a nurses aide program? those aren't free.So if the real problem is the ultra rich and corporations, why have this argument if it doesn't fix the real problemWhat min wage would actually need to be (not made up numbers)http://nypost.com/2013/08/19/when-welfare-pays-better-than-work/Ah, the welfare queen argument. You're quoting the New York Post, which is essentially like quoting Fox News. Not a very valid source.Someone addressed this above, but I'll reiterate. Study after study show that no one WANTS to be a mooch off the government. People want to work and pay their own way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justapilgrim Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 It's always someone else's faultI can't afford itmy 15 seconds of Google skills, here are free programs, in every state http://nursingcareertips.com/free-cna-training/And that is just one of many many free training programs. When I took my training course I did it for "free" also by committing to work for a facility for 3 months so they would pay for itI could tear apart your sex ed comments but instead I will attribute this to the break down in family, and lack of two parent homes (that could thus teach the sex ed) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pickleboy Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Just curious if anyone here has first hand experience working on the front lines of economic development initiatives? I do... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Raichu Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Someone addressed this above, but I'll reiterate. Study after study show that no one WANTS to be a mooch off the government. People want to work and pay their own way. I do not know about "no one". Just based on the "seller used my picture" thread, everyone wants their listing sold on eBay but not everyone wants to put the work necessary to achieve it. There is always a subset of society that are lazy and want whatever easiest for them regardless of how it affect others. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregpj Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 It's always someone else's faultI can't afford itmy 15 seconds of Google skills, here are free programs, in every state http://nursingcareertips.com/free-cna-training/And that is just one of many many free training programs. When I took my training course I did it for "free" also by committing to work for a facility for 3 months so they would pay for itI could tear apart your sex ed comments but instead I will attribute this to the break down in family, and lack of two parent homes (that could thus teach the sex ed)Poor people can't be bothered to look for them... they don't even think they exist and they are too busy scraping by. BTW I'm not saying it's someone else's fault, what I'm saying is that at what point does the rest of society say "who gives a s*** whose fault it is, lets get these people some help?"I agree parents shouldn't be afraid to educate their kids about sex, but I guarantee you those who were pregnant at 16 (whether a two parent home or not) don't have any business educating their own kids about sex and it probably stems from their parents and their grandparents having no business educating them either! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bricketycricket Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) If it's not possible how about A- don't have kids you can't afford orB- get training/education so you aren't min wageI make more than most here. While in college 10 years ago I took a 4 week training program to be a nurses aide. After a month a made $13/hr and made more than my room mate who had a master's in social workI agree with the sentiment of getting an education and not having kids if you can't afford them. But just insisting that people do those things is not realistic or productive. You have to accept that people are going to make poor decisions and decide if you want to try and help them or write them off. Both choices will cost you, either in social welfare initiatives or insurance deductibles when these destitute people are smashing your car windows in. Edited May 21, 2015 by bricketycricket 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerryherb Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) minimum wage in my opinion is for part time workers. in no way it should be a living wage and the two need to be separated. if you want a living wage its called a salary and comes with a college diploma. if you want a living wage learn a trade or get a degree. on the other hand the world needs janitors too, err engineers of custodial arts for your PC entertainment, so no, not every child is going to be president Edited May 21, 2015 by jerryherb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tabolton314 Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 It's always someone else's faultI can't afford itmy 15 seconds of Google skills, here are free programs, in every state http://nursingcareertips.com/free-cna-training/And that is just one of many many free training programs. When I took my training course I did it for "free" also by committing to work for a facility for 3 months so they would pay for itI could tear apart your sex ed comments but instead I will attribute this to the break down in family, and lack of two parent homes (that could thus teach the sex ed)It's not always someone else's fault. But there are very real things that stand in the way of people getting an education, free or otherwise. Go ahead and tear them apart. I'm making generalizations, but the people who are lobbying for abstinence-only education are NOT the sort of people who are taking it upon themselves to teach their kids about sex at home. And I'm betting a lot of those families ARE two parent families.Article on the absolute failure of abstinence-only education in MississippiPaper comparing abstinence-only ed to comprehensive ed by Univ of CA, San Fran (PDF link)From the NIH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justapilgrim Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 I agree we should help, but throwing money at them (higher min wage) isn't the solution. We have been throwing money at poor people for generations and they are still poor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostDad Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 I've never quite understood the lack of education argument. Outside of a few insular religious communities here and there, is there really anyone in the US over the age of 10 who does not understand how babies are made? And you can buy most forms of birth control in most parts of the country. With abortion there are some restrictions in the South and parts of the West, but we were talking about CA originally, and that's one of the most pro-choice states in the union. If you live in CA and had three children by the time you turned 20, it was because you wanted them. In other words, we are mostly talking about the poor choices of individuals, not society's failings. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tabolton314 Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 I agree we should help, but throwing money at them (higher min wage) isn't the solution. We have been throwing money at poor people for generations and they are still poorThrowing money is the easy, feel good solution. So what do you think is the solution? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Migration Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 They should still make enough to live on.https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eiRGRvE_Wqg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10230 Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 People - can we please come back to the topic of this thread? This is not about whether this minimum wage is a good idea or not. This is about how this decision affects Lego investment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostDad Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Ok, I think raising the minimum wage in LA will have no appreciable effect on Lego investment outside of LA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerryherb Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) Throwing money is the easy, feel good solution. So what do you think is the solution?how about education this country so desperately needs? this used to be the epicenter of science and invention, what happened?teach the man to fish.... Edited May 21, 2015 by jerryherb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregpj Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 how about education this country so desperately needs? this used to be the epicenter of science and invention, what happened? teach the man to fish.... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tabolton314 Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) People - can we please come back to the topic of this thread? This is not about whether this minimum wage is a good idea or not. This is about how this decision affects Lego investment.ACTUALLY, that's exactly what it started off as. The Lego investment part of the title was added later.I went back and read the first post. The title was updated at some point to reflect that. Mea culpa It's a good thing. People have more money to put into the economy. The tax burden on those making more is lessened, or (haha) the government spends it on better things, like education.Seatac, WA has had the minimum wage slowly being raised to $15 for the past year. The sky has not fallen. Edited May 21, 2015 by tabolton314 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Raichu Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 how about education this country so desperately needs? this used to be the epicenter of science and invention, what happened? teach the man to fish.... In America, our consumer society has trained us from birth to be selfish, greedy, and irresponsible - We deserve everything we want, and shouldn't need to wait before getting it. Whether you were to increase the minimum wage to $15, $20 or $25 - One year later, most of these people would still have nothing left. What happened ? Basically, it is easier to sell your craps to a bunch of impulsive irresponsible people than to a bunch of smart and/or educated people 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerryherb Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 What happened ? Basically, it is easier to sell your craps to a bunch of impulsive irresponsible people than to a bunch of smart and/or educated people HAHAHA! this is actually correct. EU buyers are very picky about what they spend their money on. guess what, education there is free or very inexpensive. its not tied to whether your parents can take out a second mortgage and then some. nor does it require you to trip and fall under the debt bus if youre smart but cant afford education without borrowing a ton money. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justapilgrim Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Throwing money is the easy, feel good solution. So what do you think is the solution?Fix the family. Sounds dumb, but it's a start. 72% of blacks born to single mothers. Those kids are less likely to go to college, succeed in life etc etc etc. Ben Carson isn't my favorite guy in the world, but his mom broke the cycle and he is a very successoul guy. I don't care if people like him but the media needs to find more people like him and less AL Sharpton type people. Carson talks about how smart kids are teased for being "too white", rise above thatThe programs are already there, get the word out, the free training programs are a great start. Put the work requirements back into welfare, especially for single men. Plenty of things we can do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asharerin Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 This discussion reminded me of a youtube vid I saw a while back. Very informative: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostDad Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Community colleges and state universities (in one's own state) are still fairly inexpensive. The UC system has had to raise tuition substantially to cover rising pension obligations (within the UC system and CA government more broadly), but that is not the fault of rich people or greedy corporations. In any case, I don't think education is the issue. Not having kids you can't support should be the easiest decision in the world. I mean, what exactly is the upside? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerryherb Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 This discussion reminded me of a youtube vid I saw a while back. Very informative:so youre telling me there is still a chance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerryherb Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) im tired of this "victim of the environment" bull. this video only shows the outcome statistics, not the reasons the demographic groups arrived there. obviously the reason is how these children were raised and educated, so dont blame the society for individual's parents' choices. certain percent of EVERY group still managed to get to the top, didnt they? i came from a family way south of the poverty line when we first arrived in this country and both my parents and my siblings became educated and successful. wish everyone in the US would realize what opportunities they have here because they dont appear to have the slightest idea Edited May 21, 2015 by jerryherb 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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