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75144 - UCS: Snowspeeder


oneknightr
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Just like some other people said here... if one deer is over the fence more will follow. 

Could it be Lego is sacrificing us investors and the secondary market. They have had the advantages of the secondary market for years. But maybe now we are becoming a pain in the rear end. A stone in their shoe. So they are "killing us" softly. Not with an shock and awe. So they can reform the lego aftermarket. Clean it up a bit. To make it more graspy. Maybe some negative consequences are seen as collateral damage before reaching their goal.

I always believe nothing happens without a reason. Like what happened now with VW.   

The old UCS sets are not a problem for LEGO. Their values help justify current new prices. That being said, the true problem that LEGO has is with resellers flipping in production sets. Retired sets are not their focus. Making money is and remaking old classics is an easy way to make money.

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For some reason the term hoarder comes to mind...and not in the classic definition of the term...but the modern interpretation.  

I can see where you are going with this, and I totally understand.  I had an old buddy of mine, who was the definition of a hoarder and it was a disaster every time I hung out with him at his place.

As far as my collections go, they are pretty limited.  I have my tarantula hobby, lego hobby, and even some of my older video games that I still keep.  I'm glad I can say I'm in no way shape or form a hoarder.  I have no problem getting rid of a lot of junk.

Out of curiosity, why is it that hoarder comes to mind?  Is it a reflection of you 'hoarding' your vast collection? :P Or have you known people who were serious hoarders like that show?

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The old UCS sets are not a problem for LEGO. Their values help justify current new prices. That being said, the true problem that LEGO has is with resellers flipping in production sets. Retired sets are not their focus. Making money is and remaking old classics is an easy way to make money.

 

This I can fully agree with!!!  I don't mind people that hold onto them for later sale, but there's been a time or two that I can remember that really chaffed my chaps about QFLLs that dry up all the stock LONG before the normal person can get their hands on.  That's what's more frustrating.

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Like others have said in eailer post, its seems that TLG is on a Hoth/Empire push next year.

I'm looking fwd to the carbon freezing chamber playset, UCS/playset Hoth base set as well.

I've always thought with the re boot of the X-Wing, that it would only be a matter of time before with saw a re imagined UCS  Snowspeeder.

Glad I never bought the original verison, never looked quite right in my opinon.

I do feel for the orignal UCS set collectors, but on the other hand it great for late in the game collectors/horders to get there hands on re boots of older sets.

Instead of paying huge dollar value for older retired sets, just pay retail for newer verisons. example I bought the new verison of the sandcrawler instead of tracking down the older less accurate verison for a hefty price tag.

This in turn begs the question, Will TLG re boot the UCS Falcon and UCS ISD?

 

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Older sets will still hold their value, though the demand may not be as high.  There is value in being the original, just look other collecting medium.  The difference in LEGO is the price is driven up by more than just "collectors".  LEGO is a strange medium from a collector perspective, because there are wide range of interest involved.  If your only interest in collecting LEGOs is it value, then you can never take it out of the box.  And thus you are not really a LEGO collector but a box collector.  As soon as you take it out of the box you have shown that playability and/or displayability trumps value, thus are you now just a Fan?  

Edited by jay4e
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This in turn begs the question, Will TLG re boot the UCS Falcon and UCS ISD?

 

If I had to take a guess, I would assume we will get a ISD remake several years before a Falcon remake.  I have a bricklinked one and it's actually a really good solid model that still looks fantastic next to even newer UCS models.  There can definitely be improvements to it, but it's not even close to being dated like the ISD.

I had the original back in 2002, and although it's a fantastic model, it was seriously lacking in certain aspects.  The magnets were garbage IMO, the front tip drooped too much, and it was really fragile.  They've improved so much on building techniques and pieces that a new version would be significantly more robust.

It will look nice next to the UCS AT-AT when it's released.

I'm really stoked about the UCS Snowspeeder rumor, but honestly, I would rather have a UCS AT-AT first.  I just hope though, that if they make it, they do it justice and make it the next $400 UCS.

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If I had to take a guess, I would assume we will get a ISD remake several years before a Falcon remake.  I have a bricklinked one and it's actually a really good solid model that still looks fantastic next to even newer UCS models.  There can definitely be improvements to it, but it's not even close to being dated like the ISD.

I had the original back in 2002, and although it's a fantastic model, it was seriously lacking in certain aspects.  The magnets were garbage IMO, the front tip drooped too much, and it was really fragile.  They've improved so much on building techniques and pieces that a new version would be significantly more robust.

I'm really stoked about the UCS Snowspeeder rumor, but honestly, I would rather have a UCS AT-AT first.  I just hope though, that if they make it, they do it justice and make it the next $400 UCS.

I would guess that with the new movies having a very similar version of the ISD we will definitely see a new UCS version in the not so distant future. OT or TFA version, either one will make me happy.

Same here about the Snowspeeder. I have purchased and built a couple of the original model and really, really liked it. I bought them to flip so I obviously didn't keep them, but if they release another one I will be all over it for my personal collection.

Why they would not release a UCS AT-AT first just makes no sense to me at all.

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Why they would not release a UCS AT-AT first just makes no sense to me at all.

My guess is they will likely replace the Sandcrawler with an AT-AT, but the Sandcrawler is not ready to go just yet.  The Speeder is likely the $200 price point, or maybe even less.  They dont seem to mind multiples in the $200 or less range, but I dont think they want too much competition in the higher priced models.  Assuming Echo base replaces EW, and the Speeder will replace Red5(?).  Now what happens with DS is the question? If the DS goes buybuy we may just get a MF?

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My guess is they will likely replace the Sandcrawler with an AT-AT, but the Sandcrawler is not ready to go just yet.  The Speeder is likely the $200 price point, or maybe even less.  They dont seem to mind multiples in the $200 or less range, but I dont think they want too much competition in the higher priced models.  Assuming Echo base replaces EW, and the Speeder will replace Red5(?).  Now what happens with DS is the question? If the DS goes buybuy we may just get a MF?

DS would replace DS...

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So no UCS Jar Jar Binks bust?

But seriously, I firmly believe remaking the Snowspeeder makes sense--and not from a "let's kill the secondary market" perspective. The first UCS Snowspeeder is older than my 7th grader. It's time. There only so many iconic craft that "deserve" (i.e., would make enough bank for the development/marketing dollar) to be made as UCS.

Mr. Mack has said it many times, but so few listen: the real issue for LEGO are all the flippers who devour stock immediately and sell at inflated prices--"scalping." I'm not throwing stones at any BPers in particular, but that practice damages LEGO's brand if LEGO can't get new bricks in the hands of its primary customers. I understand why people do it... but I do fear the long term consequences. LEGO's popularity is money for us. I don't want to tarnish that popularity.

Jar Jar... I'm still holding out hope.

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I can see where you are going with this, and I totally understand.  I had an old buddy of mine, who was the definition of a hoarder and it was a disaster every time I hung out with him at his place.

As far as my collections go, they are pretty limited.  I have my tarantula hobby, lego hobby, and even some of my older video games that I still keep.  I'm glad I can say I'm in no way shape or form a hoarder.  I have no problem getting rid of a lot of junk.

Out of curiosity, why is it that hoarder comes to mind?  Is it a reflection of you 'hoarding' your vast collection? :P Or have you known people who were serious hoarders like that show?

Let's preface this by saying I have no problems with people wanting a new Snowspeeder or Falcon or whatever.  Many people are new to LEGO and don't have or want to spend thousands of dollars on a retired set.  That being said, we are on a slippery slope here.  More and more remakes can water down the market and will reduce prices.  How can we really complain?  LEGO has given all of us ample opportunity to make a profit on these sets and sell them.  I really don't have an issue with the Red 5 or Sandcrawler remake, and I really don't thing the rumored Snowspeeder will be an issue either.  I would just expect people on this site in particular to temper their enthusiasm knowing that while reissues are great for many new fans, the overall effect on the LEGO secondary market will be a negative one.  

As for the term "collector," I classify people who look to acquire rare, vintage and valuable items that appreciate as collectors.  Gold, stamps, guns, cars, antiques, classic toys, Jordan sneakers, Barbie Dolls, art...and so on.  Sorry, DVDs, Beanie Babies, marbles and Precious Moments figurines don't count.  :mad:

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It will be hard to cry when the original snowspeeder goes from 2269.00 for MIB to 3500.00 MIB on amazon, regardless if a new UCS version arrives or not.  At this point, 12 years later, i'm sure finding UCS snowspeeders in mint boxes with seals still in place is as getting as rare as an authentic bigfoot siting.  The really fanatical collectors will still have them all, and I don't think their value will be lost. 

There are only 2 offers on amazon right now for MIB snowspeeders.  So, I think the value is safe.  The scarcity game is in play.

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As for the term "collector," I classify people who look to acquire rare, vintage and valuable items that appreciate as collectors.  Gold, stamps, guns, cars, antiques, classic toys, Jordan sneakers, Barbie Dolls, art...and so on.  Sorry, DVDs, Beanie Babies, marbles and Precious Moments figurines don't count.  :mad:

That may be your opinion but it is not an accurate definition of the word collector.  Anything someone collects of a certain thing regardless of value or rarity is a collector.

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Sorry, DVDs, Beanie Babies, marbles and Precious Moments figurines don't count.  :mad:

What about Funko Pops? ;)

I think people who are truly "enthusiastic" about remakes are those who missed out the first time around and are collectors first, investors second (if even investors) or very close between the two. I missed out on the early UCS sets (10212 is my oldest retired Star Wars UCS set). The part of me that missed out is very curious to see if this rumor is indeed true. With an original retail of $129.99 US, a $200 US remake should be just as impressive!

Then there are the investors who haven't been doing this as long.... Remakes give them an opportunity to share in the secondary market. Nobody wants to say this, but the folks who've been in the game a long time should be the most upset because they stand to lose the most. People like myself who have none of the old UCS sets for personal or resale might think a different way. Let's take the old Rebel Snowspeeder and compare it to the UCS Falcon with data from Brickpicker:

10129 - Retail: $129.99, Current Market Value: $1793.80, Increase from Retail: 1279.95%
10179 - Retail: $499.99, Current Market Value: $4569.80, Increase from Retail: 813.98%

The old Snowspeeder outperforms the golden boy by over 400%! Even if the market for the old one halves, meaning it sells for $900 (I think the 7191 X-wing dipped less than half overall, so let's go to half).... That leaves $700 of room for the new one to grow once it retires too. That has to be an interesting proposition for new investors.

Now if when the new set is hoarded, that will hurt it's secondary price but even just the possibility of doubling your money (rather than almost 14x for the current) is still appealing.

Full Disclaimer: The Snowspeeder was THE Star Wars ship I wanted as a child and never got. I have not bought the new one (75049) as without the orange it didn't do it for me and I've almost purchased the old 4500 set a few times, but never went through with it..

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collector -  a person who collects things of a specified type, professionally or as a hobby.

hoard - a stock or store of money or valued objects, typically one that is secret or carefully guarded.

hoarder (mental disorder) - a persistent difficulty discarding or parting with possessions because of a perceived need to save them.  Items are typically of little to no value.

 

Back to the snowspeeder.  I am a bit baffled why they wouldn't release a UCS AT-AT before another snowspeeder.  Hopefully it is an improvement on the older one (which looks pretty good to me) so I don't have a hard time choosing which to display.

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The logical endgame would be a Pick-A-Set wall.  Not just for Star Wars, but also Winter Village, modulars, etc.  As small-batch manufacturing gets cheaper, I could imagine Lego doing that.  So we could have all sets (excepting those that failed to attract buyers) available all the time.  This would be an online-only deal, obviously, due to retail shelf space limitations.

Ultimately, we are very, very expendable.  There used to be a big market in 'services' that offered lump-sum payments to lottery winners who won $10K per month for life and similar prizes.  Then the states got to thinking, 'hey, we could cut out the middleman and screw lottery winners ourselves' and they absolutely annihilated that particular economic niche.  All we do is try to fill in for Lego when it underproduces a set.  Lego can eliminate 90% of reseller profits just by running its operations more efficiently and better predicting consumer demand for particular products.

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