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Jaison, I'm confused what sort of protection you think signature confirmation gives you with PayPal on <$250 shipments?

 

PayPal is looking at one thing if the buyer claims non-delivery: does the carrier show it delivered? If yes, was the item <$250? If yes, seller wins claim. There is no "borderline" or "gray area" - the $250 is a hard line on delivery disputed PayPal claims.

 

If i have signature delivery for items less than $250 and if the buyer claims "no delivery", i pretty much automatically win the paypal claims and don't have to deal with usps. my time is worth the buyer paying an extra $2.95.  the usps claims insurance process is frustrating.

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I think part of the confusion is my fault, USPS requires signature conformation on any insured item over $200, has nothing to do with PayPal or eBay, I will at times require signature conformation on a less expensive item because 1) they get lost less 2) if a buyer knows that a signature will be required I have found that it tends to reduce fraudsters. I offer "free" shipping, so the cost is factored in. I nearly always use USPS as most sets that I sell are used and with smaller boxes USPS is less expensive.

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I think part of the confusion is my fault, USPS requires signature conformation on any insured item over $200, has nothing to do with PayPal or eBay, I will at times require signature conformation on a less expensive item because 1) they get lost less 2) if a buyer knows that a signature will be required I have found that it tends to reduce fraudsters. I offer "free" shipping, so the cost is factored in. I nearly always use USPS as most sets that I sell are used and with smaller boxes USPS is less expensive.

Sometimes buyers even ask me to use signature confirmation so their carrier driver doesn't throw the box somewhere or they want to make sure they are home when delivered. Some buyers just want their Lego set delivered especially in areas where their delivery folks are "so so"

In a nutshell, Migration and I are saying that signature delivery conformation doesn't hurt especially for only $3 (w/ USPS) for transactions over the auto insured amount (e.g. $50 for USPS) and below $250. There are benefits which will both outlined. For orders over $250 and especially international packages, it's a no-brainer if the carrier offers it with the service you are paying for.

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If i have signature delivery for items less than $250 and if the buyer claims "no delivery", i pretty much automatically win the paypal claims and don't have to deal with usps. my time is worth the buyer paying an extra $2.95.  the usps claims insurance process is frustrating.

If the item is less than $250 and the buyer claims it wasn't delivered, but tracking shows it delivered, you will win the case anyways, regardless of signature.

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If the item is less than $250 and the buyer claims it wasn't delivered, but tracking shows it delivered, you will win the case anyways, regardless of signature.

 

 

Jaison, this is correct. I don't know where you got the idea that you don't win the case with PayPal with just delivery confirmation showing delivered, on items under $250, but you do.

 

Insurance requirements are separate and should not be confused into what we're talking about. Paying extra for signature confirmation gains you absolutely nothing with a PayPal claim under $250. There's no bonus, no benefit, no reason.

 

If you have reasons for doing it outside of PayPal non-delivery claims that's fine, but not what you keep saying so I remain concerned that you are not getting what you think you're paying for, nor would I recommend other sellers pay extra for what you seem to think you're getting from PayPal.

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Jaison, this is correct. I don't know where you got the idea that you don't win the case with PayPal with just delivery confirmation showing delivered, on items under $250, but you do.

 

Insurance requirements are separate and should not be confused into what we're talking about. Paying extra for signature confirmation gains you absolutely nothing with a PayPal claim under $250. There's no bonus, no benefit, no reason.

 

If you have reasons for doing it outside of PayPal non-delivery claims that's fine, but not what you keep saying so I remain concerned that you are not getting what you think you're paying for, nor would I recommend other sellers pay extra for what you seem to think you're getting from PayPal.

 

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hi frog,

 

my father worked at usps for 36 years before retiring.  i'm sure you heard some crazy stories involving laziness (i'm not even talking about theft here). 

 

i use signature delivery even on some sub $249 orders despite paypal not factoring it during the claims process (since it's under $250).  why?  it helps both the buyer and seller by making overworked, busy, forgetful, and / or lazy deliverymen "not" leave packages at incorrect destinations (e.g. next door, the next street, the next town).  it offers some peace of mind.

 

thus for a measly $2.95, both buyer and seller can 99% eliminate the odds of packages getting lost once they leave the local post office for delivery.

 

let me tell you a story.

 

Over a year ago, i bought a $100 opened w/ box 6210 Jabba's Sail Barge for my son's 4th birthday.   the seller shipped it but didn't use signature confirmation.  on the saturday before the party. 

the seller texts me to ask how i like the set as he saw "delivered" online.  prob was it was not at my house.  a few days go by.  still shows delivered online.  local post office is clueless about what happened.  my regular postman (who I trust) tells me he never delivered it. 

seller thinks i'm pulling a fast one on him. 

i opened a paypal claim and lose. 

2 days after the case is closed, the doorbell rangs and it's some random usps employee with the package.  turns out it was delivered to a "123 east main st" and "125 west main st".  upon arriving home from a vacation, the honest homeowner (a neighbor was holding the mail) gave the package to his local postman. yay.

 

according to my father, my postman, and the guy who dropped it off, this most definitely never would have happened if the seller has signature delivery. why?  it forces the mailman to look at the address and name on the label.

 

is this a remote case, maybe. sure.  however uncommon things happen all the time. and when things go wrong the buyer or seller shouldn't have to put for someone's mistake.  i don't want my buyers having issues that could have been prevented.  plus, i had similar problems with UPS and USPS when i was in the sporting event ticket business. 

 

so yes, i fully understand signature confirmation, postal insurance, and the paypal claims process.   i also understand that some items are worth more to buyers than their monetary value.  hence, i'll continue to signature confirmation when it seems right and recommend others do the same,

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Gotcha...but it doesn't help win paypal cases. You just want mailman to be better at their jobs. Because you initially said it helps you win cases with signature confirmation for items below 250. I am sorry but that was misledading.

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I've shipped 939 packages of books this year so far. None of them has been lost or significantly delayed.

 

I've shipped somewhere north of 200 packages of LEGO this year so far. None of them has been lost, one was very delayed, it went on a fun tour of the US before finally arriving safely at the buyer's door.

 

Yes, packages do get lost, stolen, mis-delivered, eaten by postal machinery, and, so far as I can tell, abducted by aliens. It doesn't happen very often at all, but if an item is of greater value than I am comfortable losing, I buy insurance.

 

If the idea is to add a layer of paperwork for the post office, you could just as well purchase return receipts or package your items in fluorescent orange boxes. It would achieve the same effect as unnecessary signature confirmations.  :thumbsup:

 

Edit: And thank you dbost, I sometimes lose the scent of the original argument when I'm distracted down side trails: yes, the assertion that sig conf. helps with PayPal <$250 is simply, totally, patently false.

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Gotcha...but it doesn't help win paypal cases. You just want mailman to be better at their jobs.

 

ha.   i only want my buyers to get what they bought.  ...but if some delivery guys do their better, we all win.

if i win a paypal claim (as a seller) at the expense of a buyer who didn't do anything wrong, i just lost repeat business. 

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I've shipped 939 packages of books this year so far. None of them has been lost or significantly delayed.

 

I've shipped somewhere north of 200 packages of LEGO this year so far. None of them has been lost, one was very delayed, it went on a fun tour of the US before finally arriving safely at the buyer's door.

 

Yes, packages do get lost, stolen, mis-delivered, eaten by postal machinery, and, so far as I can tell, abducted by aliens. It doesn't happen very often at all, but if an item is of greater value than I am comfortable losing, I buy insurance.

 

If the idea is to add a layer of paperwork for the post office, you could just as well purchase return receipts or package your items in fluorescent orange boxes. It would achieve the same effect as unnecessary signature confirmations.  :thumbsup:

 

Edit: And thank you dbost, I sometimes lose the scent of the original argument when I'm distracted down side trails: yes, the assertion that sig conf. helps with PayPal <$250 is simply, totally, patently false.

 

ha. to each their own especially with the sarcasm above.    :thumbsup:

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Look, I actually respect your point of view of helping the buyer in both good business and being a good guy. I just didn't like that it read like u were saying signature conf for items below 250 helped win cases.

 

 

Cause if that was the case. Paypal should add a little line below their seller protection that states.

 

"technically, u don't need signature confirmation for items below 250, but just to be safe and make sure you really win, u best add that signature confirmation for that "2.99" minifigure you just sold"

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I've shipped 939 packages of books this year so far. None of them has been lost or significantly delayed.

I've shipped somewhere north of 200 packages of LEGO this year so far. None of them has been lost, one was very delayed, it went on a fun tour of the US before finally arriving safely at the buyer's door.

Yes, packages do get lost, stolen, mis-delivered, eaten by postal machinery, and, so far as I can tell, abducted by aliens. It doesn't happen very often at all, but if an item is of greater value than I am comfortable losing, I buy insurance.

If the idea is to add a layer of paperwork for the post office, you could just as well purchase return receipts or package your items in fluorescent orange boxes. It would achieve the same effect as unnecessary signature confirmations. :thumbsup:

Edit: And thank you dbost, I sometimes lose the scent of the original argument when I'm distracted down side trails: yes, the assertion that sig conf. helps with PayPal <$250 is simply, totally, patently false.

I like the orange idea maybe I'll use that fancy bright orange tape next time! ?

Sent from my iPhone using Brickpicker

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I like the orange idea maybe I'll use that fancy bright orange tape next time!

Sent from my iPhone using Brickpicker

 

Having slightly off-norm packaging does help sometimes. A time or two over the years when a package was mis-directed, our unusual book packaging did jog the postal carrier's memory and they were able to find the package either in the bowels of the post office or on a neighbor's doorstep.

 

Sadly, our LEGO packaging is very boring and standard - bubble mailers, priority or plain brown boxes. I suppose I could slap giant grinning frog stickers all over them.  :shifty:

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Great, the price of fancy bright orange tape just skyrocketed. Good luck buying it now a reasonable price.

 

yeah, and you better get signature confirmation on that fancy orange tape. haha

hey, i just thought of my wife's car with all this fancy orange tape talk.  it does sorta look like a taped up orange box.

 

post-3743-0-02286700-1398970548.jpg

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<snip>

according to my father, my postman, and the guy who dropped it off, this most definitely never would have happened if the seller has signature delivery. why?  it forces the mailman to look at the address and name on the label.

<snip>

 

 

It's just anecdotal, but it just struck a chord with me when I read this part.

 

Last year in the run-up to Christmas, I had more than a few packages shipped to my home.  Every other day I had one delivery person or another dropping off stuff, FedEx/UPS/USPS even a DHL delivery from China.  

 

I'd completely forgotten about one particular delivery, until I read your post -- it was just another average day, sitting out on my porch chatting with my girlfriend.  UPS truck pulls up in a swirl of dust and the "extra guy" that they add during the holidays to some trucks jumps out with a package and hustles up the stairs.  He's huffing and puffing and pushes his signature tablet at me and says he needs a signature for this one.  I was expecting a number of packages and didn't think anything of it, I signed the tablet, he handed me the box, and bounded back down the stairs and off they went.

 

I went back to talking with the GF and an hour or so later, as we go in I grab the box and look at the label and realize it wasn't for me.  Hell it didn't even have my street's address on it -- some random address on the other side of town.  Name wasn't even similar.  That night looking online, I see they've marked a package that I was supposed to get as delivered -- which didn't require signature, but certainly wasn't at my door.

 

Told my GF and she told the driver when the UPS truck came by again the next day to deliver another package.  She gave them the one that was incorrectly delivered to us and the one that apparently got delivered somewhere else in town showed up about a week later.  

 

So sure... Adding signature delivery may add some extra paperwork and may get the delivery guy to take a second look at the address or the name of on the package -- but if you have someone that is lazy, stupid or just in a plain rush -- it isn't going to help you.

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