Alternative Brands and Shops (investing/building)

[Frank Brickowski]

7 hours ago, exracer327 said:

Why did the Ecto get taken down so fast?  Because it is a LEGO set.  If there was another set that copied a LEGO set, I'll bet it would be taken down right away as well because LEGO would come after them.  Why are the others up?  Because no one has called them into question.  

(About the copyright: I don't ignore any facts. I just say: Look at what is being sold right now in Germany. That's the proof of legality I am referring to all the time - the very market givens as of today.)

While I admit stopping the Ecto from going on sale COULD have been part of one out-of-court settlement BB made with LEGO in one of their disputes (which I do not know, I also don't know if the BB Ecto comes back later), there are at least two sets still on sale at BB that are similar to sets also available from LEGO right now.

Edited February 26, 2021 by Frank Brickowski

[Frank Brickowski]

@Mark TwainBlueBrixx is committing blatant trademark infringement and isn't going to last with the xeno chestbuster and "Alien Robot". They've taken down the "classic ambulance" from the SF category which was a clone of Ecto-1 . . . I don't think you can argue that a repurposed hearse with ghost hunting equipment is a classic NYC ambulance.


As I was trying to find out more about what happened to the "classic NYC ambulance" you mentioned I did not find anything about it on the internet, not a single picture, no text, nothing in any Facebook comments. I'm not saying it has never been on the BB site, I'd just like to know what I am looking for in the first place. Could you provide ANY info about the set I could use? (They do have "normal" classic ambulances on sale by the way, but this is not what you are referring to, or is it?)

How did you personally get to know it existed before? Have you personally seen a picture or release info?

Edited February 26, 2021 by Frank Brickowski

[Frank Brickowski]

Now also on German TV, spreading the news about similar-quality alternatives at 50% the price:

https://www.hr-fernsehen.de/sendungen-a-z/mex/sendungen/lego-streit--wie-hart-der-kampf-um-marktanteile-bei-spielzeug-ist,video-144620.html

[Sozial]

1 hour ago, Frank Brickowski said:

Now also on German TV, spreading the news about similar-quality alternatives at 50% the price:

https://www.hr-fernsehen.de/sendungen-a-z/mex/sendungen/lego-streit--wie-hart-der-kampf-um-marktanteile-bei-spielzeug-ist,video-144620.html

Doom is near.

[Frank Brickowski]

19 minutes ago, Sozial said:

Doom is near.

I don't think so.

[Alpinemaps]

On 2/26/2021 at 12:47 AM, Frank Brickowski said:

(About the copyright: I don't ignore any facts. I just say: Look at what is being sold right now in Germany. That's the proof of legality I am referring to all the time - the very market givens as of today.)

Can we take a step back for a second, and make sure we understand your basic point here?

Based on that statement, if I understand you correctly:  Because an item is being sold in Germany, that makes it legal to sell.

Is that what you're basing your argument on?

[Frank Brickowski]

40 minutes ago, Alpinemaps said:

Can we take a step back for a second, and make sure we understand your basic point here?

Based on that statement, if I understand you correctly:  Because an item is being sold in Germany, that makes it legal to sell.

Is that what you're basing your argument on?

Basically yes. If they (meaning a big retailer) openly sell it in Germany it is obviously legal to sell it in Germany. As the German retailers are consulting their own lawyers specialised in trademark and copyright legislation before selling the sets to make sure they're safe and don't have to fear any legal issues, it's first of all logical to assume they pretty much know what they are doing. They've also published several videos confirming this view, addressing the legal issues with LEGO and that the retailers' lawyers have taken care of it (including several actions by the retailers themselves for some of LEGO's designs/trademarks to be deleted).

German law blogs and YouTubers have also commented on the subject matter, having the same point of view. Believe it or not, if you start selling something in Germany in these volumes, you better be sure what you're doing - because it will NOT take any company seeing its rights infringed 2 years to go after you, but rather 2 days to do so. Any of those retailers selling something here is not much different from Amazon.de selling something - this is being done in broad daylight, not some secret backyard operation.

One of the retailers even specified they imported only those sets with minifigures (that is a very own topic in itself) NOT in danger of being regarded as "too similar to LEGO's", yet LEGO still demanded them to stop selling them - and it's not too far fetched that LEGO will lose in some of the cases because the figure simply are not similar enough and they cannot prohibit everybody from selling anything.

I don't know what people in the US think what's going on in Germany in terms of laws, but it's not very different from the US regarding what is allowed, what is not allowed, how fast they're gonna get you if you do something illegal and what punishment is waiting for you.

Edited February 27, 2021 by Frank Brickowski

[exracer327]

3 hours ago, Sozial said:

Doom is near.

[Sozial]

26 minutes ago, Alpinemaps said:

Can we take a step back for a second, and make sure we understand your basic point here?

Based on that statement, if I understand you correctly:  Because an item is being sold in Germany, that makes it legal to sell.

Is that what you're basing your argument on?

He says yes.

[Darth_Raichu]

34 minutes ago, Frank Brickowski said:

German law blogs and YouTubers have also commented on the subject matter, having the same point of view. Believe it or not, if you start selling something in Germany in these volumes, you better be sure what you're doing - because it will NOT take any company seeing its rights infringed 2 years to go after you, but rather 2 days to do so. Any of those retailers selling something here is not much different from Amazon.de selling something - this is being done in broad daylight, not some secret backyard operation.

Curious, are Germany sellers allowed to sell knock off toys from China on Amazon.de?  For example those clearly fake and cheaply made action figures

[Sozial]

16 minutes ago, Darth_Raichu said:

Curious, are Germany sellers allowed to sell knock off toys from China on Amazon.de?  For example those clearly fake and cheaply made action figures

Same amz rules apply here, so no.  I suppose you could try it, but the risk that your accounts gets closed is there so I wouldnt advise to do it.

[Mark Twain]

This took 10 minutes of scrolling through the brands on Bluebrixx's website. 

Optimus Prime: https://www.bluebrixx.com/en/robotics/103043/OTH-661-Robot-red-blue-Others

Bumble Bee: https://www.bluebrixx.com/en/robotics/103044/OTH-663-Robot-yellow-Others

Random transformer: https://www.bluebrixx.com/en/robotics/103045/OTH-662-Robot-blue-Others

Avenger's Tower . .  https://www.bluebrixx.com/en/architecture/103264/PAN-55120-Skyscrapers-Hero-Tower-Panlos

Disney Castle  . . . but in pink! https://www.bluebrixx.com/en/architecture/103265/PAN-613003-Big-Castle-Panlos

Hogwarts Castle . . .  https://www.bluebrixx.com/en/architecture/101765/YZD-YZ071-Medieval-Castle-YZ-Diamond

Gundam . . . https://www.bluebrixx.com/en/robotics/101868/SUP-K80-Roboter-RX78-2-Super-18K

 

 

[Alpinemaps]

21 minutes ago, Mark Twain said:

This took 10 minutes of scrolling through the brands on Bluebrixx's website. 

Optimus Prime Robot red/blue: https://www.bluebrixx.com/en/robotics/103043/OTH-661-Robot-red-blue-Others

Bumble Bee Robot yellow: https://www.bluebrixx.com/en/robotics/103044/OTH-663-Robot-yellow-Others

Random transformer (Soundwave) Robert blue : https://www.bluebrixx.com/en/robotics/103045/OTH-662-Robot-blue-Others

Avenger's Tower Skyscrapers Hero Tower . .  https://www.bluebrixx.com/en/architecture/103264/PAN-55120-Skyscrapers-Hero-Tower-Panlos

Disney Castle Dream Castle/Big Castle  . . . but in pink! https://www.bluebrixx.com/en/architecture/103265/PAN-613003-Big-Castle-Panlos

Hogwarts Castle Medieval Castle . . .  https://www.bluebrixx.com/en/architecture/101765/YZD-YZ071-Medieval-Castle-YZ-Diamond

Gundam Roboter RX78-2. . . https://www.bluebrixx.com/en/robotics/101868/SUP-K80-Roboter-RX78-2-Super-18K

Fixed that for you.

[Alpinemaps]

1 hour ago, Frank Brickowski said:

Basically yes.

...

I don't know what people in the US think what's going on in Germany in terms of laws, but it's not very different from the US regarding what is allowed, what is not allowed, how fast they're gonna get you if you do something illegal and what punishment is waiting for you.

Basically, no.

I don't know what people in Germany think what's going on in the US in terms of laws, but it is *very* different from Germany regarding what is allowed, what is not allowed, how fast they're gonna get you if you do something illegal and what punishment is waiting for you.

Your whole argument then is based on "if it's being sold, it's okay."  In the US, that's not the case.  Just because someone is selling it, it doesn't make it okay.  That's why LEGO went over Lepin in China. And that's why they're going after these German companies now.  They wouldn't be doing it if they didn't think there was a case, and they didn't think they stood to lose more money by allowing it, rather than ignoring it.

The only difference is that the Germans are in a much better place, politically, to speak up and say something (i.e., complain), than the Chinese are.  And the Chinese government is much more involved in production than Germany.  The Chinese could leverage their weight to shut down Lepin and get LEGO to agree to bring production to the country, and open stores in the country.  Which means more money in CCP hands than if the government let Lepin continue.

Here's another question.  These videos are linked at the bottom of every page on BB's site.  Is this the same guy that you've been citing as a huge YouTuber with a big following, who has been critical of LEGO?

[Frank Brickowski]

4 hours ago, Darth_Raichu said:

Curious, are Germany sellers allowed to sell knock off toys from China on Amazon.de?  For example those clearly fake and cheaply made action figures

I am talking about big retailers based in Germany, selling sets stored in Germany to customers living in Germany. For this constellation nothing illegal is allowed to be sold on any channel. For the rest I don't know. 

[Frank Brickowski]

4 hours ago, Mark Twain said:

This took 10 minutes of scrolling through the brands on Bluebrixx's website. 

Optimus Prime: https://www.bluebrixx.com/en/robotics/103043/OTH-661-Robot-red-blue-Others

Bumble Bee: https://www.bluebrixx.com/en/robotics/103044/OTH-663-Robot-yellow-Others

Random transformer: https://www.bluebrixx.com/en/robotics/103045/OTH-662-Robot-blue-Others

Avenger's Tower . .  https://www.bluebrixx.com/en/architecture/103264/PAN-55120-Skyscrapers-Hero-Tower-Panlos

Disney Castle  . . . but in pink! https://www.bluebrixx.com/en/architecture/103265/PAN-613003-Big-Castle-Panlos

Hogwarts Castle . . .  https://www.bluebrixx.com/en/architecture/101765/YZD-YZ071-Medieval-Castle-YZ-Diamond

Gundam . . . https://www.bluebrixx.com/en/robotics/101868/SUP-K80-Roboter-RX78-2-Super-18K

So you managed to find another 7 sets that are legally sold there because no existing copyrights or trademarks are being infringed. Nice work!

What about the "Ecto-1" you said has vanished from their site? Any evidence it has ever been there? How did you get to know about it originally?

Edited February 27, 2021 by Frank Brickowski

[Frank Brickowski]

 

3 hours ago, Alpinemaps said:

Your whole argument then is based on "if it's being sold, it's okay."  In the US, that's not the case.  Just because someone is selling it, it doesn't make it okay.  That's why LEGO went over bogus bricks in China.

I'm talking about "selling INSIDE Germany", not "shipping TO a German customer from another country".  So, Germany-based retailers INSIDE GERMANY selling sets they have stores INSIDE the country to customers INSIDE GERMANY. What you are talking about is called "importing". Or were bogus bricks sets sold WITHIN the US? I doubt it.

Anything sold WITHIN Germany is being sold legally. I've never seen anything illegal in any online shop or offline store being sold WITHIN Germany. Have you ever bought something ILLEGAL in your local Walmart? I doubt it. This is the market situation I am talking about for the alternative brands' sets.

    

3 hours ago, Alpinemaps said:

Here's another question.  These videos are linked at the bottom of every page on BB's site.  Is this the same guy that you've been citing as a huge YouTuber with a big following, who has been critical of LEGO?

I actually see two different people in these thumbnails. Both of them BB employees. None of them has their own YT channel as far as I know. What is your question about altogether?

Edited February 27, 2021 by Frank Brickowski

[roxio]

On 2/26/2021 at 9:30 AM, Frank Brickowski said:

@Mark TwainBlueBrixx is committing blatant trademark infringement and isn't going to last with the xeno chestbuster and "Alien Robot". They've taken down the "classic ambulance" from the SF category which was a clone of Ecto-1 . . . I don't think you can argue that a repurposed hearse with ghost hunting equipment is a classic NYC ambulance.


As I was trying to find out more about what happened to the "classic NYC ambulance" you mentioned I did not find anything about it on the internet, not a single picture, no text, nothing in any Facebook comments. I'm not saying it has never been on the BB site, I'd just like to know what I am looking for in the first place. Could you provide ANY info about the set I could use? (They do have "normal" classic ambulances on sale by the way, but this is not what you are referring to, or is it?)

How did you personally get to know it existed before? Have you personally seen a picture or release info?

Come on, just google bluebrixx 101474, the link, now to a dead page, is still there

https://www.bluebrixx.com/en/bluebrixxspecials/101474/Classic-Ambulance-car-BlueBrixx-Special

Edited February 27, 2021 by roxio

[Frank Brickowski]

7 minutes ago, roxio said:

Come on, just google bluebrixx 101474, the link, now to a dead page, is still there

https://www.bluebrixx.com/en/bluebrixxspecials/101474/Classic-Ambulance-car-BlueBrixx-Special

There are other ambulances, police cars etc. on their page, too. Could be anything only seeing the URL.

https://www.bluebrixx.com/en/bluebrixxspecials/100486/Police-Ambulance-in-white-BlueBrixx-Special

What can I say, I mean, how are we supposed to say anything about an alleged Ecto-1 if no one has ever seen t?

Edited February 27, 2021 by Frank Brickowski

[Captain_chaos]

6 hours ago, Alpinemaps said:

Can we take a step back for a second, and make sure we understand your basic point here?

Based on that statement, if I understand you correctly:  Because an item is being sold in Germany, that makes it legal to sell.

Is that what you're basing your argument on?

I already attempted a drug-based reductio ad absurdum on him, but it fell on deaf ears (much like everything else).

[Frank Brickowski]

23 minutes ago, Captain_chaos said:

I already attempted a drug-based reductio ad absurdum on him, but it fell on deaf ears (much like everything else).

I am in awe of the fact that about 10 international members of this forum each have a comprehensive expertise about the German economy, German brick business, the mindset of the German society and about German YouTube that is far superior to the collective expertise of the editorial staffs of several renowned German newspapers, public TV stations, specialised lawyers and specialised retailers.

I mean, some of you might still not get the situation: The arguments I'm using here are in line with what is being said in the articles, TV reports, video reviews and tens of thousand of comments etc. I linked here. Which means you are not even argueing with ME, but with all those people. So, serious question: WHO is being made fun of here, eventually?

Edited February 27, 2021 by Frank Brickowski

[roxio]

1 hour ago, Frank Brickowski said:

There are other ambulances, police cars etc. on their page, too. Could be anything only seeing the URL.

https://www.bluebrixx.com/en/bluebrixxspecials/100486/Police-Ambulance-in-white-BlueBrixx-Special

What can I say, I mean, how are we supposed to say anything about an alleged Ecto-1 if no one has ever seen t?

It was there, as mentioned by other posters in the other locked thread. Around 3 weeks ago that google search also showed images.

As you say, probably settled with Lego out of court which would include removing all traces of it online.

Maybe it never was on sale, but it was on the site.

And I have asked BB about it and got no response, not even a "oh, 101474, that was a vintage miller ambulance we have discontinued" or whatever. If 101474 was an generic ambulance, it would be easy to find traces of it from a multitude of sources, but as we can't find anything but a dead link, it is a reasonable assertion it was the Ecto copy.

Edited February 28, 2021 by roxio
spelling

[Shortbus311]

I am in awe of the fact that about 10 international members of this forum each have a comprehensive expertise about the German economy, German brick business, the mindset of the German society and about German YouTube that is far superior to the collective expertise of the editorial staffs of several renowned German newspapers, public TV stations, specialised lawyers and specialised retailers.

I mean, some of you might still not get the situation: The arguments I'm using here are in line with what is being said in the articles, TV reports, video reviews and tens of thousand of comments etc. I linked here. Which means you are not even argueing with ME, but with all those people. So, serious question: WHO is being made fun of here, eventually?

None of the articles you have linked claim that every set sold by bluebrix is legal and does not infringe upon any copyrights. You are the only one suggesting that.

This thread has just gotten dumber and dumber. I will not be reading anything else on this thread and blocking Frank, good luck, I hope you convince everyone else here of whatever point you are trying to make.

[Frank Brickowski]

18 minutes ago, roxio said:

It was there, as mentioned by other posters in the other locked thread. Around 3 weeks ago that google search also showed images.

As you say, probably settled with Lego out of court which would include removing all traces of it online.

Maybe it never was on sale, but it was on the site.

And I have asked BB about it and got no response, not even a "oh, 101474, that was a vintage miller ambulance we have discontinued" or whatever. If 101474 was an generic ambulance, it would be easy to find traces of it from a multitude of sources, but as we can't find anything but a dead link, it is a reasonable assertion it was the Ecto copy.

Alright, I just say it would have been nice to actually get a glimpse of what we're talking about at all. It's a bit far fetched though to go from "no response" to "that means they're guilty" (of whatever). However, like I said before, if they took the alleged "Ecto" down before it went on sale because it would have infringed any rights, then this would only be proof of what I'm saying: they do not sell illegal stuff. Otherwise, if they did not care about products infringing copyrights etc., why did they not just put it on sale?

And before someone asks: "But why did they develop it in the first place?". Let me just say: "Osprey, anyone?". Meaning: LEGO also developed a product they pulled before (or even after) it went on sale while they could have known much earlier this might be(come) problematic. Maybe BB developed the alleged "Ecto" while doing research about the copyrights situation, but decided to stop it because their lawyers told them not to sell it. All speculation.

Edited February 28, 2021 by Frank Brickowski

[KShine]

2 hours ago, Shortbus311 said:

None of the articles you have linked claim that every set sold by bluebrix is legal and does not infringe upon any copyrights. You are the only one suggesting that.

This thread has just gotten dumber and dumber. I will not be reading anything else on this thread and blocking Frank, good luck, I hope you convince everyone else here of whatever point you are trying to make.

Looking over the latest Brickpicker posts, and I see your post (in condensed form) - it ends with:

I will not be reading anything else on this thread and blocking Frank, good luck, I hope you...

And in my mind, I expected it would read... get the help you need.