A Most Excellent Amazon Return Experience - Was I Scammed by a Seller???

[Grynn]

Holy Sh*T!!!!

No one is going to believe this.

Guess what just showed up on eBay?  In the last few hours?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LATEST-SEIKO-ASTRON-SOLAR-GPS-BLACK-PVD-TACHYMETER-MENS-WATCH-SSE031J-/391262166307?hash=item5b190add23

THIS IS THE WATCH I RETURNED.  Its a rare model, very few come available, and ITS FROM THE SAME CITY I RETURNED IT TO.  What are the odds?  Here's a picture of the watch I returned, at the time of return:

 

You have got to be kidding?  Not really sure what to do now?

First of all, it does sound to me like a bogus situation, BUT there is no way to be sure what happened. In my experience, these situations work out much better when approached with a non-accusatory attitude, whatever the truth may be. People tend to want to help people who are "nice", not irate. Just friendly advice.

The CC dispute route is an interesting one I cannot comment on.

As for this new listing, Houston is a big place. And it doesn't appear from a glance that there are any unique characteristics in the pics that can prove this watch is the one you returned. However, as this "new" seller seems to be reputable, I would assume it is either a different watch, or your return that was indeed stolen, and "pawned" to this watch shop. If it were me I would reach out to this seller and briefly explain the situation, then ask if they are willing to tell you how and when they obtained the watch. The possible responses are of course completely unpredictable, but if it was me I would gladly tell you the situation and help proceed with legal action if possible.

[jerryherb]

I hate to be that guy, but if you honestly believe you were defrauded (which you clearly do and it sure sounds like you might be right) then you should consider filing a legal claim, or at a minimum contacting your local Attorney General's office.  Many states actually have programs in place to investigate this kind of thing and you might be surprised at how much traction you get if you call the AG in the state where this seller is located. Also, you very possibly might be able to claim the loss on your income tax returns as the victim of a theft/fraud and, although it's small consolation, avoid paying income taxes on the amount you were defrauded. Just a couple of ideas to try and help.  I'm very sorry this happened.

tax return deduction would only apply if you file an itemized return and it has to be above a certain percentage of your claimed income i think its pretty high, like 7.5% or something like that. 

[mfortunek]

I doubt the seller would be stupid enough to list this on eBay if he was in the middle of scamming you, UPS and Amazon all at the same time.  Sounds like somebody stole the package and is selling the watch...  I would preserve all of this documentation for your ongoing claim.

[diablo2112]

 

First of all, it does sound to me like a bogus situation, BUT there is no way to be sure what happened. In my experience, these situations work out much better when approached with a non-accusatory attitude, whatever the truth may be. People tend to want to help people who are "nice", not irate. Just friendly advice.

The CC dispute route is an interesting one I cannot comment on.

As for this new listing, Houston is a big place. And it doesn't appear from a glance that there are any unique characteristics in the pics that can prove this watch is the one you returned. However, as this "new" seller seems to be reputable, I would assume it is either a different watch, or your return that was indeed stolen, and "pawned" to this watch shop. If it were me I would reach out to this seller and briefly explain the situation, then ask if they are willing to tell you how and when they obtained the watch. The possible responses are of course completely unpredictable, but if it was me I would gladly tell you the situation and help proceed with legal action if possible.

This is excellent advice which I will follow.  I'll be contacting the seller now.  Thanks for the calm analysis!

[oneknightr]

General advice when buying items: Use your credit card, never your debit card unless you have no choice. Debit cards are tied to your checking account and claims are a lot harder to get reimbursed for. Also, if someone ever steals your debit card info and uses it, you're out money from your checking account as opposed to credit from the credit card company.

Sorry to hear about this. The whole situation blows. If I was sending a high priced item back though, I would have paid for adult signature required.

[justapilgrim]

Police/AG is route I would go

[Val-E]

If you were to bid on this Ebay item you could then use the Ebay feature to request the seller's contact information.  This may help identify who is selling this watch.

http://pages.ebay.com/help/buy/contact-member.html#requesting

Request a member's contact information

If you're involved in a current or recent transaction, and can't reach the other member through email, you can request the other member's contact information. Here's how:

1. Click the Advanced link at the top of the eBay home page.

2. In the Members section on the left side of the page, click Find contact information.

3. Enter the username of the member and the transaction's item number.

We'll send the contact information, including the member's name, city, and telephone number, to your registered email address. The member will also receive your contact information. You'll both need to respect our User Privacy Notice when using this information.

Read our false or missing contact information policy for more information.

Yup, if it´s a scam, that watch is going to be sold again somehow and somewhere - issue would be proving it was the exact same you returned.

Proof of delivery is almost always the responsiility of the shipper, not the receiver, and in this and  insurance would not have helped because they would wash their hands due to the lack of signature - only a proper sign on delivery shipping waybill would fly same as with Paypal seller protection.

The downside is that a lot of couriers don´t clarify that this service is included or even offer it as a extra online option and if you do it buy phone you have to trust that the despacher has chosen the correct option too......

[LegoEdison]

Holy Sh*T!!!!

No one is going to believe this.

Guess what just showed up on eBay?  In the last few hours?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LATEST-SEIKO-ASTRON-SOLAR-GPS-BLACK-PVD-TACHYMETER-MENS-WATCH-SSE031J-/391262166307?hash=item5b190add23

THIS IS THE WATCH I RETURNED.  Its a rare model, very few come available, and ITS FROM THE SAME CITY I RETURNED IT TO.  What are the odds?  Here's a picture of the watch I returned, at the time of return:

You have got to be kidding?  Not really sure what to do now?

are they the same store? check their inventory to see if they sell the same watch

[diablo2112]

I did do an inventory cross check.  They overlap a ton of inventory, but its not identical.  I did finally manage to get contact info for the eBay seller.  They are not the same person.  However, the address of the Amazon seller and the eBay seller are separated by about 4 miles on Google maps, pretty close given how large Houston is.  

Also of interest, note the time and date on the watch in the eBay photos:  all taken well after my shipment shows as delivered.  None of this is hard  proof, of course, but an interesting, coincidence, no?  4 miles apart, for a very rare item, that just happens to appear a day after?  And this watch is RARE.   Look how many auctions of this watch appear, which have actual photos, not product photos.  Maybe 1 or 2 a month.

I contacted my bank, and they were encouraging.  They talked to the CC processor, and processor said I had a valid claim.  I wrote it all up, and submitted it. We'll see if that goes anywhere.  If you're reading this soap opera, and want to see the letter I sent to my bank, LMK and I can post the appropriate sections.  For entertainment value, nothing more  

[asharerin]

I have a feeling the amazon seller knew you would lose the A-Z claim since you did not send the return with signature confirmation and decided to take you to the cleaners. I make sure to only purchase on Amazon if it is an FBA item precisely so I don't have to deal with this kind of BS. Fingers crossed it gets sorted out for you.

[diablo2112]

One interesting tidbit:  The watch I received had a misaligned minute-counter hand.  If you're a watch guy, you notice these things, and they matter.  It was actually pretty bad, but not enough for me to send back for a warranty repair.   

Now, check this out.  2 pictures below.  First, my watch, from the picture I took when I returned it.  Notice the misaligned minutes hand.  It's before the tick-mark at 12 o'clock.  Now, second picture is from the eBay auction.  Guess what?  It too has the same, exact, misaligned minutes hand.  Pretty rare that these high-end watches have such defects, and watch guys do care and will return because of this.  I think that's a pretty good bit of evidence this may, in fact, be the watch I returned on eBay.

My watch:

 

ebay watch:

alternate picture of eBay watch:

Edited September 16, 2015 by diablo2112

[Miami Bomb Squad]

Does this watch have a unique serial number?  
If not, then you can't assume its the same watch just because its from the same city.
Houston is pretty big.  

[diablo2112]

Does this watch have a unique serial number?  
If not, then you can't assume its the same watch just because its from the same city.
Houston is pretty big.  

It does have a unique serial number, but I don't have a picture or record of this, unfortunately.  And yep, Houston is pretty big.  And the Amazon seller and eBay seller live 4 miles from each other.  And this watch (Seiko Astron SSE031) is only one of 3 that has been posted to eBay with unique (not stock) photos for sale in the last month, on the entire site.  And the minutes hands are both misaligned.  If you care to check other auctions of the same watch, you'll see the others don't have such misaligned hands.  

Still not convinced?  Hmmmm.....

Edited September 16, 2015 by diablo2112

[redghostx]

It does have a unique serial number, but I don't have a picture or record of this, unfortunately.  And yep, Houston is pretty big.  And the Amazon seller and eBay seller live 4 miles from each other.  And this watch (Seiko Astron SSE031) is only one of 3 that has been posted to eBay with unique (not stock) photos for sale in the last month, on the entire site.  And the minutes hands are both misaligned.  If you care to check other auctions of the same watch, you'll see the others don't have such misaligned hands.  

Still not convinced?  Hmmmm.....

You don't have to convince anyone here, you simply have to get your money back. Then you can strum your air guitar and yell Excellennnnt!

[diablo2112]

You don't have to convince anyone here, you simply have to get your money back. Then you can strum your air guitar and yell Excellennnnt!

No need for the Air Guitar, I'll just grab my PRS and jam some Rush on the real thing

 

 

Edited September 16, 2015 by diablo2112

[Miami Bomb Squad]

IM not the one you need to convinced.
I think you are convincing yourself.
Decisions are made from hard facts. 
Your misfortune sucks, but the only watch I would buy over the internet would be a Timex. 

[sharky1999]

It does have a unique serial number, but I don't have a picture or record of this, unfortunately.  And yep, Houston is pretty big.  And the Amazon seller and eBay seller live 4 miles from each other.  And this watch (Seiko Astron SSE031) is only one of 3 that has been posted to eBay with unique (not stock) photos for sale in the last month, on the entire site.  And the minutes hands are both misaligned.  If you care to check other auctions of the same watch, you'll see the others don't have such misaligned hands.  

Still not convinced?  Hmmmm.....

if the watch was stolen off his front porch, then would it not make sense the thief lives in the same area.  Then pawned it at a local pawn shop.

Maybe ask the eBay seller for more photos like you are interested in buying and maybe you can see the serial number.  Assuming it's engraved on the back or something.

Not sure if it's possible to somehow get the serial number from the Amazon seller as well.  He may grow suspicious if you ask.

Then play along with "the watch is stolen" story and inform the Amazon seller "Hey I think I found the stolen watch.  The thief is selling it on ebay.  The serial number can be used to verify it's the same one."  Of course he could always say it's not the number, but maybe you can make him worry that you found him out.

Or, maybe he's telling the truth and you would have solved the case.

edit: actually you paid for the watch and didn't get a refund.  It's still your property.  Maybe get the eBay seller to reveal the serial number and try to get the number from the Amazon seller maybe get the Huston police involved at this point so the Amazon guy has to cooperate.  The key is to have the eBay seller serial number in hand first before playing your cards so to speak. 

Edit again: if the eBay seller sells a lot of watches (let's assume he's a pawn shop guy) and assuming the stolen watch story is true then the eBay seller and Amazon seller are "victims" as well.  It would be logical to think both sellers would be required to cooperate with the police if you file a police report with the local police in the sellers area.

Edited September 16, 2015 by sharky1999

[legone3]

I would talk to the police immediately. 

But its possible that they won't do anything about it. If they do, I don't think they need a warrant for requesting Ebay to give the seller's information.

On the other hand, you'd want to be very careful of accusatory language. Not just because we don't know exactly what happened, but also because it may provide an opportunity for the seller to sue you for libel or slander.

[Pseudoty]

If you know you will be able to identify it Rebuy it. Think of the possibilities. I won't spell them out due to the possibilities of possible pending litigation. 

[jerryherb]

unless you have a serial number i dont think you can prove its yours

[pickleboy]

I don't know whether to feel sorry for you or be mad at you for sending a package that valuable without requiring a signature upon delivery.  

[El Guapo]

Wow.  Hope it works out for you...

Only thing I have to add is that Pawn Shops (pretty sure of this) can't sell an item for 30 days after they purchase it.

Also, you could ask the ebay member if he has a reciept or some other verification that he purchased the watch.  Seems like that would be a pretty common question he would receive, as fake or unlicensed watches are a pretty big deal.

[LegoEdison]

I believe the watch is quartz. do you remember you see the watch moving when you open it? the reason i am asking is because the placement of the hour and minute like this is very common. this is the best looking position  for taking a watch picture. 

 

PS: I still thinking this is a scam. 

Edited September 16, 2015 by LegoEdison

[diablo2112]

Great replies today, which forms collective group therapy.  BP for the win.

Anyway, a few updates, for those in the cheap seats.

Filed police report.  Filed credit card dispute.  Dispute was accepted by my bank, my bank thinks this has an excellent chance of reversal.  Wrote Amazon seller.  Asked for their cooperation in filing police report, and notified them of eBay auction.  Haven't heard 1 thing back from Amazon seller, they've gone silent.  Amazon seller claimed they would file police report, they have not.  Contacted eBay seller with polite note, told them it looked like a watch I had stolen in the area 2 days before, eBay seller hasn't written me back either.  Both Amazon seller and eBay seller have been 100% quiet throughout.  Wrote a note directly to Jeff Bazos, hoping for the infamous "?" reply (google this is you're not aware).  Jammed a particularly difficult section of "Don't Look Back" on my guitar, at ear piercing volume.  I'm a watch guy.  Really, I know watches.  The misaligned minutes hand isn't an accident. Watch was reset (you can see this on the 6 o'clock sundial and the position of that indicator) and the chrono was not running.  To any informed watch person, those dial pics are as good as a fingerprint.  That is all.

Edited September 16, 2015 by diablo2112

[jerryherb]

this is a long shot, but any way ebay can provide the original pictures the user uploaded? if the seller did not adjust the time/date you may be able to compare the exif info of his/her picture (time stamp) to your picture and see if the time/date offset on the dial are exact match. if that is so its as good as a fingerprint.  you'd be surprised how stupid and lazy crooks are. its waaaay looong shot though as its also assuming that both your and their camera saves exif info. most cameras nowadays do, even the phone ones

Edited September 16, 2015 by jerryherb